I'm not suggesting Lucas was alive when Elspeth was born. I don't think he would need to be for it to be the "time of the Seeker", I don't think the time or age needs to be triggered by Elspeth's birth - in fact I think it is triggered by the birth of Lucas (or Rushton).
Sian, I'm a little fuzzy, what does the bracelet have to do with it? I'm not denying Rushton is descended from the Hannahs, just that I still think Lucas is, too :)
That's a fair point, but
It's just one extra piece to the puzzle. On the one hand we have Rushton, who's grandmother watched the moon, reclaimed Obernewtyn for misfits, was actually alive at the same time as Elspeth and has Hannah Jr's bracelet. On the other hand, there's Lukas who's last name is Seraphim (which as Rushton pointed out in Ashling, doesn't really say much at all) and rebuilt Obernewtyn (and from Louis's various snippets about the place, I don't think this says much either)
The prophecy said the son would be born "in the time of the seeker", not that their birth would trigger the time of the seeker. To me, this means that you should be able to define "the time of the seeker" in the absence of the son's existence, so their birth can't mean the begining of it. I'm happy for Elspeth's time to include some part before and after her birth, but I think we ought to restrict that to under a generation. Given that Lukas had grown children who died before Rushton's father was born, that means he's old enough to be their great-grandfather, which is a few too many generations for me to be comfortable with.
Also, I think you're counting a few too many things as necessary. I think the only necessary things are storms and keystones; Elspeth, Dragon, Maruman, Ariel, (this one's just my hypothesis) Daffyd and whoever the destroyer turns out to be. Their presence is all that is needed and everything else is just 'the way things worked out'. Just one of what was many possible future's in Hannah Sr's time.
Great argument! I miss the good discussions like this :D
OK OK perhaps I'm just really fond of the idea of Lucas XD it does seem a shame that the history of the early books is, potentially, now irrelevant and incorrect and explained away. Though, I'd forgotten that his children from his first marriage were grown, making him so much older, so I'm definitely willing to concede that is a really long time.
To an extent I agree with what you're saying about what is and isn't 'necessary' for Elspeth to do her job... But considering what was found on Norseland and in the Earthtemple, not to mention how important the situation in the Red Land is, I think it's less a "that's the way things panned out" than you suggest. But I do get what you're saying.
It might be possible to tye in these new ideas with some of the older theories.
What if we go back to Rushton being related to Hannah on both sides of the family? Lucas would be the Seraphim mentioned in the prophecy and the herald of the time of the Seeker, leaving Rushton free to be born from a different branch of the family and have his own roles to play.
Alternatively, could Lucas be a decoy? It might be that the Agyllians were unsure who the destroyer is and when he would turn up, and also how much he might know. It is possible that they manipulated things so that if the destroyer turned up early and started looking for a Seraphim male they found the wrong one. It would also mean that Rushton ended up with the Seraphim name in time to prove the prophecy while his ancestors were 'protected' by hiding using other names.
So, after reading this thread I need to once again re-read the series because all of this information has given me a headache contemplating the different theories. Good information!
[act]resurrects old thread[/act] I think the reminder that Lucas was disappointed to reach Obernewtyn to find a ruin is important. Nobody in the Land before him seemed to think there was any reason to venture higher than the established settlements. That makes the Lucas-is-a-Beforetimer all the more plausible. And as for how he took the name Seraphim...
Wait - what if the reason he has the Seraphim name is simpler than we think? Hannah foresaw the Great White - and obviously saw that there'd be no future possible where their age didn't come to an end. Don't you think she'd have tried to protect everyone in her family - paranormal or not - that she could?
We know Hannah's parents had no other children, but what if Lucas was a relative of hers - a cousin or nephew? We know so little about their lives in the Beforetime, but I doubt very much that Hannah was the only Seraphim (aside from her parents) in the Beforetime.
This may be a stretch but Hannah may have even left Obernewtyn to him in her will (since she was owner of Obernewtyn, after Jacob gifted it to her - the plaque in Newrome Reichler clinic). Or, Hannah may have left him a letter, just as she did Cassy, and Hannah Jr, telling him that it was now his and that it was his task to rebuild it.
So, Rushton's related to Hannah on both sides, but it's so far removed by the time you get to Lucas' time that it doesn't actually matter.