I think she'll be allowed to have her life. She'll probably have a moment of "my life's purpose is completed, what's left?" but I think in the end she'll realise it's the end of The Seeker's story, and the true start of Elspeth's Story (not saying that the two were separate, but the Seeker's goals were the first priority).
Maruman's insisted that she'll never return to Obernewtyn, but I was theorising with MK that he may mean that Obernewtyn will never be the same as when she left. We see signs of it changing in TS; people moving there to settle, other familiar faces moving away, etc. So it's not so much that she'll never go back, but that it never will go back to what it's been, it'll change forever.
It may also mean that The Seeker will never return to Obernewtyn; eg, she'll return as Elspeth only.
Ultimately I just want her to go back to Obernewtyn. It's her home, regardless of its form, and Rushton is Chieftain, so he'll eventually need to go back too. The thought of Elspeth staying in Redland and Rushton going back to Ober...sounds so much like Hannah/Jacob's story (or, what we gleaned from The Dark Road). Once the Quest is over those sort of eternal separations don't need to happen any more (do they?).
Ashlings' guildleader
12 years ago
Ashlings' guildleader
Master of Obernewtyn
I like your second point Min about the Seeker not returning, but Elspeth will. Will Elspeth ever be able to just settle down though? Maybe although Obernewtyn is her home, she'll never really stay there for too long, always off on more adventures. I'm imagining that when they get in contact with the Efari, it will open up a lot more of the world to them, regions that they would have thought blacklands but that the Efari know are inhabited and are in contact with. And with that, perhaps more misfits to meet or even rescue. That surely would be tempting to Elspeth ... or would it?
I'm not sure that Elspeth is so much looking for adventures, as trying to escape forming lasting relationships with people and getting in a situation where she has to depend on other people. That's probably partially to do with her personality, but also a lot to do with the fact that she is the Seeker, and so is under the impression that she has to leave all her friends and loved ones behind to go save the world; if you think all the bonds you form are going to be broken, then it's quite natural to go out of your way to avoid forming them! I like Min's point too, and I'd like to think that once she's fulfilled her destiny, and knows no more will be asked of her, she'll be able to let down her guard and just enjoy the rest of her life, hopefully with Rushton. If she and Rushton were to bond, she would also become the leader of Obernewtyn, anyway, so wouldn't be able just to go rushing off on her own to rescue people. Everything would have to be more planned. Given that, I think that if she has any tendencies to go gallivanting off around the world, they'd be quickly suppressed as she grew up and took on more responsibilities.
I agree with the Seeker not going back but Elf will theory. It seems perfectly possible and logical even... maybe. My thoughts (hopes...) are that, because Dragon will need to go to the Red Land to lead her people, Elf will go with her. Because the expedition may still be there, hopefully they will reunite. I vaguely remember something about the Red Land mainly being the City and then mainly just red, bare earth (i think that happened anyway) so the expedition would remain in the one area so it would be easy for them to come across each other. I can't imagine that Elspeth will not get the opputunity to live her life. I mean, she didn't choose to be the Seeker. Hey another question, do you think the animal's belief that Elspeth will free them is founded or just a plan to get them on side by the Agyllians? I have always wondered if in the end she will forefil the prophesy or if it was just a lie.
I think we all hope (fingers crossed) that Elf will get to go home to Rushton, but obviously some obstacle will have to be over come; Perhaps Rushton and the expedition-ers leave the red Land without her, maybe she doesn't even get there- or they don't even make it there, as the (spoiler) ending to The Sending might suggest or the unspeakable happens and that something bad happens to Rushton, if I recall correctly he was ill at the end of TS, maybe Elspeth has to cure him or blah. (That is a lot of random theories, sorry!)
The "Elspeth not the Seeker will go back to Obernewtyn" theory is entirely possible also considering that it is no longer just Obernewtyn but also Obernewty Shire. Also I think Maruman told Elspeth that she will not return to the "barud" which is significant. Elspeth truly believes that she will not return to her home so she cast it away, thus making it no longer a place she calls home, perhaps she will return to Obernewtyn but because it is no longer her home it can not be called the barud?
As to the freeing the animals (for want of a better word) thing, a boy in my class suggested they will be freed in Sador and because of their already advancing acceptance of the beasts, as seen specifically in TKP, I feel that this theory is valid but the freeing of the animals could simply mean that they are no longer under the constraints they suffer through now. Maybe Elspeth convinces the people of the Land that beasts are equal thus they should not be forced to work double-thus they are free?
perhaps... maybe animals will get a wage for their work like humans do, because everything would crumble without their cooperation. I think, maybe if the Agyllians did not ever intend for Elf to "free the animals" she will feel it her duty to after her Seeker duty is over. I mean, she does feel guilty about how they have all been mislead and stuff.
Warning major Sending spoilers!
It's been out for ages now so I don't think we need spoiler tags, but wanted to warn just in case.Ă‚Â
I think the free running barud has been hinted at in the Beforetime sequences with Doctor Ruth and Cassy. Ruth mentions a project where they save the DNA of animals doesn't she? The Eden project?Ă‚Â
Perhaps that is the freerunning. It sounds like it's a cryo system that allows for the beasts to remain in stasis, and maybe they'll stay that way until a time when humans have died out (I suspect INES would easily be able to detect that).
It's morbid, but it feels more truthful than Sador, Redland, even Obernewtyn being the freerunning, because we know that the animals aren't satisfied with the solutions or attempts so far at equality (and, they are all well aware that the promise of one generation can be broken by the next). Maybe it's a choice that beasts can make; wait out the freerunning in stasis, or take your chances with the funaga.Ă‚Â
Perhaps that's why Maruman thinks Elspeth will never return, because he thinks she's going with them. If any of this is true, maybe the system needs a human to activate and seal them in, to monitor it and issue commands since there's no real interface for INES to operate with beasts directly, and it was always the intent with Eden that a scientist would monitor. Ruth even mentions something about having to wake the animals every few years or they shut down/die. Maybe they never overcame that so in order for the freerunning to come true, a human has to go into stasis with them, who'll be woken every so often to make the required checks.Ă‚Â
If this is the case and it needs a human though, I don't think it'll be Elspeth. One thing we never picked is that Elspeth would have other people with her. We're still in the mindset that she's doing all of this alone (can't really help it!).Ă‚Â
It makes sense for it to be, but can't be, Dragon, because she has to rule the Redland. Can't be Elspeth because she has to be allowed to have a life after all this.Ă‚Â
My heart says it'll be Dameon who stays behind with the beasts. I'm not exactly sure why yet :P and part of it is so he doesn't die in the last book (he can't!)...but I'm working on it.Ă‚Â
More logical a candidate in the end is Gavyn, since the beasts consider him one of them, so while he would technically be human enough to carry out any tasks required of the system, the beasts would still believe themselves free of the funaga. But I wonder if he'd have the focus necessary to do whatever tasks needed doing. Perhaps I'm just underestimating his character.Ă‚Â
Of course all of this depends on the freerunning barud being the Eden project to begin with :P
This is very interesting, and I'm liking the whole 'Seeker not Elspeth' who will never return to Obernewtyn. Personally I want her to go back with Rushton, it would be very sad if she had a 'now what do I do with my life?' phase and didn't snap out of it, then sailed away from the Shire on a boat to a mysterious land [strike]with her wizard mentor[/strike]...
Sending spoiler-ness
Min's delve into the Eden project also makes you think what will happen to the other characters who went on her quest. The freerunning barud idea makes sense in regards to Gavyn's involvement. Has it been hinted at all that Elspeth leading the beasts is just a way to make them help her? Or is that just what she thinks, being so focused on her 'main' quest?
It's intriguing, how many different components actually need to be carried out, that they may not all be conveniently tied together. And while Elf considers Obernewtyn 'home', in The Farseekers I think she first admitted it, that was back in a time she felt outcast and persecuted; with the massive changes in the Land, all these people moving into the new Shire could make her alter her perspective of it. So, like above have said, it might just be that she can't return 'home' because 'home' has changed so much. Either way, she can't die. And neither can Rushie.
I had never, in a zillion years have thought of that, but when you say it, it seems such an obvious answer. Gavyn would definitly stay, because it would explain the need for his presence. It would also be convinient for Rasial (who kinda creeps me out a bit), because she was not happy with the human interaction at Obernewtyn, but still enjoys Gavyn's company. Everyone journeying with Elf has to have some purpose, and that would explain Gavyn'swhich has stumped me for a while. I don't think it would be Dameon who stays behind, because he is no Beastspeaker and he would be considored too human to be accepted i think. I actually think Gavyn is quietly intelligent depite his lack of interest in humans. i'm not even sure why i think this... i just do, i guess. I agree and don't think the freerunning Baruad will be in any known land (Sador, The Land, The Red Land) but it has to be somewhere, if it exsits. I can't wait for The Red Queen!!! All this disscusion is making me soooooo excited! hyperventilating now! i have to breathe! (deep, shuddering breath) it's amazing how much you need oxygen, isn't it...?
I have just realised that this thread has been left quite closed. I will now open it up again so we can have more fun disscusion! Any more theories on Elf's life after the series is over? Will she find Rushton? Where?
Quick thing. In TS, Swallow said something about just because the gypsy elders assumed he was incapable of fathering children, that didn't mean he couldn't have them on this quest. When i read i thought he was suggesting something, either to Analivia or Elf. I doubt it would be Elf, but the again he did kiss her in Ashling...
there is something we could disscuss. maybe. ... .
Sorry, just found this thread!
I too think Elspeth will return home. Maruman told Elspeth she would not return, as this is what the Agyllians communicated to him. The Agyllians can be manipulative in order for certain future events to come to pass. It's possible that by telling Elspeth she will not return would allow her to focus entirely on The Seekers quest, without having to worry about what's going on back at Obernewtyn.
Slowly breathing the life back into this thread! Yay!
I agree the Agyllians can be manipulative (I go on a very big rant about that is the thread about Atthis being the Destroyer... hehehe) and I don't trust them personally. What are your thoughts on Dameon, Swallow, Analivia or Dragon's significance in the quest. We have already discussed Gavyn's but what about the others, and where will theygo after it is all over?
That's a far more difficult question to answer. We're suspecting that some of them won't make it, but I think Dragon will stay in the LOTRQ, and that Dameon will stay with her. Swallow and Analivia i think will be together, but as yet i haven't formed a theory on what they'd be doing
Yeah. I don't think Analivia and Swallow will make it back to the Land, but they might get together baced on that thing that Swallow was saying about how he could still father children on the trip or something. Unless that was pointed at Elf... I confuse myself. I think Dameon will be reluctant to let Elf go and will probablyend up confessing his feelings for her at some point in The Red Queen. This talk is making me really excited. I have just remember ed there is also the Sadorian tribesman guy (Straak's brother) can't remember his name now... I think it starts with A... but that is besides the point. I think he will probably die in some noble way saving the rest of them or something. Seems like the kinda thing he would do, even though we don't know him that well. The rest... well I think Dameon might make it back, even if not quite to Obernewtyn, but to Sador, or, asyou suggested, he might stay with Dragon. That would accually make sense. Yeah. That is probably what he will do.
Can't believe i've never seen this thread. I'm getting a little obsessive with the forums, lol. I want the book like NOW so I'm speculating like crazy. I like where this thread is going, where will all the questers end up? We know some won't make it, and we haven't lost anyone yet.
Who's on the quest? Here's a test of my memory
Elspeth
Gahltha
Maruman
Dameon
Faraf
Straaka's brother... Ath... darn, can't think of it ... Edited to add Ahmedri!
Dragon
Gavyn/Rasial (Whatever happens to one of them will happen to the other because their souls are bound together)
Analivia
Swallow
Darga
other horses:
Lo
Sadorian horse
Swallow's horse
The remaining wolves, although they may not continue on since their promise to go to the Graag has been fulfilled.
Is that everyone? I don't want to go check, heh.
I don't really want to speculate on deaths, it's too sad. Ahmedri and his horse were separated from the others at the end. Perhaps they'll have a different experience than the rest, maybe they'll die, maybe they escape capture and have to get the others out of the Efari city.
I hate that I've thought it, but What if we lose Gahltha? Maruman has to be with Elspeth to sing for the key, but Gahltha isn't mentioned again in any prophesies beyond the earth temple (Borne by the daywatcher). It would be absolutely tragic, though.
I assume we'll pick up Miriyum in the city. Perhaps Elf will find her spirit form, as Elf seems to be unconscious, too. Oh, then Ahmedri will need to get Straaka's bones, and maybe they'll both go back to Sador with his horse, instead of continuing with the quest.
What about ROMANCE!!!???
I like Analivia and Swallow together. Totally shipping them. Swallivia? Anallow? Swanalivia?
I can't see Elspeth with anyone but Rushton. If he dies (noooooooooo) then maybe she'll go mad. ooo, maybe she'll be comforted by Dameon, who is TOTALLY in love with her. Poor guy.
Dragon has GOT to get with Matthew, right? They fall in love as pretty much children and then get separated by oceans, it's too tragic to not get them back together. She'll rule the red land, with him as king or consort.
(Not the questers, but I LOVE Kella and Darius!)
That leaves Dameon alone. :(
So where will they all be, assuming they survive?
Dameon will stay with Elspeth until the quest is done. Although he may accidentally be the destroyer.
Swallow will possibly have children, but not in the Land, so maybe he and Analivia stay to help Dragon, and find out more history about Evander, his ancestor. Ana doesn't have anything to go back to, so I think she'll be happy staying there.
Gavyn/rasial probably have a part to play in the Eden project. Also maybe in the spirit world, as they're so strong there.
If we lose the horses I will cry. :(
I think technology will play a big part in transport. The Efari have safesuits and medical facilities to keep miriyum asleep in, and it looks like a beforetime city. Therefore they must have other things, maybe boats or even flying things, and if they're run by computer Elf won't need to know how to fly, just know how to ask.
I am really curious about the Efari, actually. Why are they capturing people? Are they evil or do they think they're helping? No one is truly evil (at least in a well-written story) they always think they're doing the right thing.
ooo, maybe Dragon will be the one to vanquish Ariel! The white faced lords want the land, does Ariel want it too? They're both... what was it, Keystones? Lodestones? they pull towards each other, anyway. Elspeth's enemy is really the Sentinal, and Dragon defends her from Ariel.
Gosh, what a RAMBLE! I'm glad I put it all in one place, though, lol.
9 years ago
Mon Aug 24 2015, 07:37amMin
As much as I would love for Dragon or even Rushton or Matthew to end Ariel, I think it'll have to be Elspeth, still, who makes the decision about what happens to him, and that she won't choose death. Elspeth killed Madame Vega without knowing what she was doing. She's not a killer. I think if Ariel dies, it'll be by accident (Entina related?), or at his own hand. Elspeth would probably insist he be taken back to the Land to stand trial, after blocking or deactivating his abilities somehow.
Lol relationships...I think we could call Swallow/Analivia Swana :P and I'm not sure they'd stay in the Red land. How would they help Dragon? Maybe they'll just stay to get clear of the Land's memories, start a new life together, while Iriny manages the Gypsy clans. I think Dragon and Matthew are a sure thing. So Matthew (assuming he doesn't die as the Destroyer, which I'm certain he must be) will stay in Red land with Dragon.
Dameon's intention was to go back home and reclaim his land (the land his cousin stole/denounced him for). I think almost everyone is speculating he'll die in TRQ (but I'm not so sure - mostly because I don't think I could handle it). And yeah, I'm sure Gavyn's whole purpose will end up being tied to the Freerunning part of the quest, looking after the Eden project.
I think the Efari are either one of two things. Either humans in suits (in the desert), living in the science-based community, a very sparse one - or robots/AI, charged with protecting any humans they find by putting them in stasis until the world has healed. Either way, they have Miryum, and likely, Jacob Obernewtyn AND Hannah Jr in stasis.
The latter seems more likely IMO because AI with such a directive wouldn't be reasoned with; it'd just carry out its task with no accounting for time. It'd explain why Elspeth was shot at the end (stunned, to get her back to safety), instead of being talked to or called out to. Also I don't remember Elspeth detecting any other minds in the area, though maybe she wasn't exactly looking. Anyway, I think to get out of the stasis they put her in, Elspeth will probably have to pull some Dreamtrails-voodoo and deactivate the system holding them in stasis. I bet INES is controlling the underlying system so it'll be Elspeth's second encounter with that OS (not exactly a character).
This feels like a bit of a ramble too...so many ideas/possibilities.
I never thought of them as robots, but it makes sense. didn't it shoot/stun her from it's forehead? also yes, the lack of talking to her.
I think Swallow won't go back because he had to name a heartchild, so the gypsies will be fine without him.
maybe swallow and analivia will tragically die together!
If it's an INES program running the city, I don't think it'll be connected to the INES at oldtown (Is it called oldtown? because the INES there said it had been separated.
However, Elspeth now knows that they can learn, so she will have to reason with one, either in that city or in the final place where sentinal is.
I wish Elspeth talked to INES longer. she could have learned so much about the beforetime. I really hope there's an INES to talk to.
I love this thread! I never thought of the efari as AI before, but totally see how that can work. If they are AI and programmed to 'rescue' humans they find, that explains why beforetimers didn't interfere with the going's on of the people of the Land; something i wondered about after reading TS.
Also, just to get it out there, I originally thought Dameon was in love with Rushton, not Elspeth. I think I had that idea when reading TKP... Not sure why, but I think it adds a bit more of a complication since he cares so much for Elspeth and wants her to be happy, but then has feelings for the guy of her dreams... Not that the chronicles need more drama lol
That's possible. I think with the weird bit of hostility between him and Rushton (when Elspeth is looking through Rushtons eyes) might be a bit of jealousy?
I like the way merret and blyss are a thing and it's no big deal.
Also writing here on my phone is so annoying, lol.
DaySeeker I could totally see that as being a possibility, given most of the evidence in-book. Dameon's love could be for either Elspeth, or Rushton. I mean, technically, he does love them both, particularly if even after all this time Rushton still calls Dameon his conscience (hello, soulmate?).
But, Isobelle's said in an interview that Dameon is in love with Elspeth. It's why he keeps his shields up around her (whereas, Rushton seems to know exactly what's going on - eg, knowing why he'd stay in Sador).
True. However, I'm for Rushton- I would never stand for Elspeth ending up with Dameon! However, something between him and Rushton has to be resolved, I don't know how.
That makes a lot of sense that the Efari could be AI, though I always assumed their suits are the same as the White-Faced Lords' suits and can't see how the White-Faced Lords could be anything other than human. However they may not be the same after all! I don't think Elspeth will die, I reckon she'll go back to Obernewtyn. But I have a bad feeling that both Matthew and Dameon are going to have sad endings :( (As in, heartbreaking deaths, Matthew's as part of him accidentally being the Destroyer). I can see Ariel actually causing his own death, potentially on purpose, maybe due to intense disappointment at being thwarted in ending the world. One thing that worries me is how Dell said she and Elspeth would never meet again. If Elspeth returns to the Land, surely she and Dell would run into each other...it gives me uneasy feelings.
Dell mentioning that she and Elspeth would never meet again...and Maruman saying Elspeth will never return to the barud.
Perhaps both are possible futuretellings that will only come to pass if events go a certain way - eg, perhaps, at the points when it was futuretold, Elspeth was still the one destined to go into stasis with the animals in the Eden project (/Freerunning barud). Perhaps Gavyn's transformation with Rasial and the potential for him to stay on instead will change that future for Elspeth (assuming that the Freerunning is the Eden project and not something else, and that it needs a human to monitor it every few years to make sure the animals don't die).
Maybe, Dell's isn't as grim as it sounds. She has a working INES interface, albeit cut off from the network. I bet a million bucks the teknoguild cave has an INES interface, waiting to be reactivated, too. If the teknoguilders reconnect Dell's INES to a network - theirs - which I'm sure they're perfectly capable of doing, it's the very nature of their beings to make tech they don't understand work again...perhaps Elspeth and Dell will skype each other in the future :P thus technically never "meet" again.
I don't know. It would be cruel after all of Elspeth's work to have Rushton return to Obernewtyn as Chieftain and Elspeth to stay on in the Red Land (or go elsewhere). Elspeth needs to be cut a break at the end of all of this.
