11 years ago
Fri Aug 23 2013, 06:41pm
The first quote has been discussed before in several threads now. I always read it as him sexually abusing them--and this was actually the first time in the series that I was able to take him seriously as a villain (previous to that my mind was preoocupied by silly images of draco malfoy the little mermaid whenever he was mentioned because I am a mature and responsible reader :P )
But the second point . . . not sure if there is anything on that. It is interesting considering what beast actually means in the contexts of the books. I've always percieved Entina/Sentinal as a machine, but I guess the Red Lander's have always cited as being a monster/beast so maybe Dell is sort of conforming to their terminology in that regards. Still, I wonder what exactly the Entina looks like to be able to be described in such a fashion. I assumed Sentinal was a complex or station but that doesn't sound particualrly beastly :P
I'm imagining the beast hasn't been seen by those who call it that. Those feeding people to the Entina know its a machine - but to keep people in line and afraid of rebelling, they threaten them with a beast. Threaten them with a Beforetime machine, and some won't know what it is to be afraid of, others will believe it dead and there'd likely be a larger uprising because the majority abhor use of Beforetime tech. Those in charge lose that balance of terror if they reveal its a machine, for all its AI. So all the public knows is that if you're fed to the beast, you never come back, or you die/are eaten, which sounds to me like they're using people to try get around the Entina's security system, which destroys the intruder when they fail. Dell calling it the beast may have happened because she futuretold it via a commoner, or Matthew for that matter, since they focus on him in futuretellings since they know him, or it may have been planted via the Agyllians who call it a beast for similar reasons - so people fear it as they should - or who perhaps believe that while its a machine, it's gained a level of consciousness (through AI - like INES) to be considered aware in its own right. Either way I still think they mean the machine.
As for the former re Ariel :-/ yeah that's what I assumed as well.
Ohmigosh Min, I'd never even considered that that's what happens to the people who get 'fed' to the Entina - but now you mention it, it makes a lot of sense! Except, why do they keep doing it? If one person doesn't work, why would they think that the next person would? Or is it just an easy way to get rid of troublesome slaves?
I think it's Ariel's doing. As he does everywhere else, he has some position of power there. And, as the H'rayka he's going to lead the Destroyer to unlock the Entina. We don't know how the prophecy's been pitched to him but we can be fairly certain he doesn't know who the Destroyer is either (though I'm convinced that during TKP he thought Elspeth was his Destroyer, hence all the creepy "I need you" dreams, and why they stopped after TKP - he realised it wasn't her). So he keeps throwing whoever he can at it. He'll have come up with some reason. Perhaps nothing more than a way to dispose of anyone who causes trouble.
Just my idea anyway, might be completely wrong.
Either that or he just gets bored. Seems a very Ariel thing to do: 'hmm, no luck finding the destroyer today, guess we'll just throw another slave into the Entina'
Oh wow Min that's a very interesting theory. And of course everyone else doesn't know what it is, they just think it's a beast because that's what they're told, those who find out die.
They could keep sending people through there to keep trying to get through the security. Like, I'm sure there are various way in, and once inside there are nigh infinite ways around, so maybe they send them through, hoping they'll make it further than the last, and one day they'll find a safe way through...?
That sounds plausible Daniel - that there's a series of security checkpoints, and if they get past one they're met with another. That might be why there's a number of keys. Cassy's USB-stick of doom likely has the password/code/whatever for one of those doorways. Another may be DNA-related, which is why Elspeth's at Pellmer now (assuming its where Hannah Jr ended up) - or, they could use Rushton, Dragon or Swallow? Would there be enough related genetic material to pass a DNA test? Probably not after all that time, but I guess it'd depend on how precise it had to be...
I have to wonder how those in charge are monitoring the attempts? Or perhaps once a gate is open, it stays that way? I'm certain the tunnel Elspeth's been dreaming of since the very first book is the path to the Entina, and I'm also fairly convinced that this is why Mathhew's the Destroyer :P because it makes sense that as a slave in the Redland who is - from the looks of dream sequences - part of an underground rebellion. At some point he will find himself in the pit. Whether as a rebel for fighting back, or Ariel actually sees and recognises him, figuring that with his mental abilities, he'll succeed where the others failed. And while he's in the pit, Elspeth has to make the choice; guide Matthew through the tunnel (why are they the only two who've ever used each others eyes?), and save him, or let him die like all the others so she can get to the machine and disable it herself.
Again all maybes, but it's fun to speculate how it's going to happen again. The other complication in the mix could be Dragon; I doubt she'd let anyone let Matthew die, when he could be saved.
Ooh, I like that last little idea, about guiding Matthew through the tunnels using his eyes . . . only to realise 'bugger, led the destroyer right to the weaponmachines'. That's just gorgeous and horrible and right up my alley :D Ignoring my sinister side though, I don't want Matthew to be the destroyer, because then it's likely that he'll die and I want Matthew and Dragon to live happily-ever-after even though Matthew really doesn't deserve her.
But thinking about that, what do people actually think will happen to the destroyer in the end, whoever they are? I mean, the information at this point indicates that they aren't actually a bad person. They're just going to end up in the hands of Ariel in some way . . . so, unlike him, they are most likely going to be a character that is redemable, so it's probably not even necessary for a death there (whereas Ariel, that guy's just gotta die. I don't see what else anybody's gonna be able to do with him . . . but even then, Elf, certainly isn't the killing kind of gal so . . . death on account of his own doing maybe? IDK, rambling now.).
Preventing them from activating the weaponmachines could involve any number of things though, so how to stop them is equally as broad. Could be something like Avatar in that Elf would have to cut off their connection to their abilities, something I imagine she'd struggle with considering how she feels about being 'trapped' in her own mind--and also considering they're most likely to be a friend so she'd likely know how'd they feel about it too. IDK.
Either way, pretty much certain the final battle/face off/denouement/whatever is going to be primarily through the mind/dreamtrails/whatnot, rather than an actual physical confrontation--well they might physically face each other in reality. I mean they just wont be punching other in the face a whole lot or anything :P
11 years ago
Mon Sep 16 2013, 07:33am
I don't think the destroyer will die - maybe be rendered unconscious by Elspeth (similar to Dragon in Ashling - oh, ok, imagine Elspeth saying goodbye to Queen Dragon, who's watching over her unconscious Matthew, waiting for him - and helping him - to recover and wake - turning the sleeping Princess fairy tale on its head - *sobs* - perhaps this is why Isobelle's said she's writing a Matthew story - because we/Elspeth won't see him wake?).
As for Ariel...I'm not sure. Part of me thinks they'll do what they do with all the other baddies - hold them accountable for their crimes at trial. But I doubt Ariel would ever allow himself to be captured, and particularly if their final confrontation doesn't take place face-to-face. The book could well end with Elspeth chasing Ariel down, to bring him back to stand trial.
It doesn't feel like enough though.
Perhaps there will be a disabling of talents - in that she'll sever Ariel's talents from him with the black sword (could such a thing be done?), leaving him docile and lobotomised...this might get around the having to kill him factor, but also mean he's no longer a threat. He can be sent back to the Earthtemple or something.
Or, perhaps the killing power will rise up and take him out, while they're on the dreamtrails. Perhaps, believing that all of the gates are unlocked, Ariel will actually go into Sentinel, and a final security check will take him out.
Hmm...none of this sounds right. What does everyone else think?
Mystic Ward
11 years ago
Mystic Ward
Twentyfamilies Gypsy
I'm really not sure about Ariel. I like the thought that he is cut off from his powers though. I do think that something rather drastic does need to happen to him. Send him back to Obernewtyn to wash pots. :P
I'm sure that Dragon and Matthew will get a happily ever after, well I hope so. And while I've always contended that Dameon will die, my thoughts have been turning more toward Rushton dying instead. Either way it's gunna be sad.
Perhaps someone like Daffyd will end up doing something to him? Elspeth might render Ariel harmless by blocking his abilities or something but, he has [censored] off a lot of people over the years, and I can imagine perhaps someone else might want to take matters into their own hands.
I say Daffyd mostly because I think he's one we no longer know a huge amount about since he's been running around looking for Gilane for most of this time, and he is definitely one of the top ones up there who have been screwed over by Ariel, so to speak. But anyone else really.
Either that or the slaves mob him or something. [act]shrugs[/act]
I really just don't see him living.
I find it interesting that your reactions have been 'It doesn't feel like enough though' and ' I do think that something rather drastic does need to happen to him', though. I spose my own reaction is rather the same, but yeah . . . in a series that purports pacifism. [act]flaps[/act]
My 'it doesn't seem enough' stance is more...if he dies, it's over. But he won't pay for all the harm he caused. If he lives, he can pay for what he's done for the rest of his life. And if he doesn't have his talents, he can't hurt or manipulate anyone with them any more. I'm really liking the thought that Elspeth (or Daffyd or someone) will destroy his talents, and leave him defective and passive and he can just go hand out Earthtemple tokens for the rest of his days, and be no further threat to anyone because his mind's completely gone.
But I agree, it sounds plausible that if Elspeth won't kill him, Daffyd or a mob of Shadows or slaves might.
I could see Ariel losing his powers, either due to Elspeth and her black sword, or because of the entina or something. It's annoying because you want him gone, but want him to suffer. And there are a lot of options but the ones I think of are too cliqued (like Elspeth has a choice whether or not to save him, Ariel ends up killing himself because of his quest). Hopefully Isobelle has come up with something interesting and original, shall be fascinating.
What I think Ariel deserves is something like what Ariel Castro deserved. And just like the latter, I will be so annoyed if the former kills himself and doesn't have to pay for what he did. I think I want him to die, but damn it I want him to suffer first.
