I am about halfway through the book. They've just had the moon fair (which sounded really fun) and just got the note about Rushton and met with Brydda. As much as I love this book, I am not enjoying because I know what's ahead. Before they got the note, every time they assume Rushton will deal with something when he returned I was sad.
Not too much to say, except that I don't really want to read about the rebellion. I will though.
How are you guys going?
I'm already done. It's devastating to read about the rebellion, even if you have read it before. I've always wanted to see the present that received from the the Maryon, it seems incredibly beautiful.
The shawl and slippers? I know! They sound gorgeous. Especially knowing it would all be completely hand made.
I am kind of glad my memory is a little foggy. I know the big things that will happen, but the little bits and pieces are surprising
I'm finished too, my plan of one book per month isn't working out very well...
This is probably my least favourite book because I hate Malik and like everyone else, the rebellion and the missing Rushton are pretty bleak topics. I will share my two favourite moments though:
1. The whole moonfair scene - we hear about other moonfairs but it is lovely to experience an Obernewtyn one, wish it was real!
2. This is a spoiler because I don't want to, well, spoil it for those who aren't there yet. When Elspeth and co find the prisoners locked in the cloister and she coaxes the man outside using images of the sky. It's heartbreakingly beautiful.
Yes, I meant the shawl and the slippers. Handmade items have always held a special place in my heart.
I have to wait a few years, at minimum, before re-reading or re-watching something. My memory is good so it's hard for me to forget even the little things. But each time I re-read I have a different experience.
Kella, I'm having the same problem. I'm already half-way through TSK. I have to agree with you that this isn't my favourite book in the series.
Elspeth just came up from the underwater city.
I cried when angina got hurt. Literal tears, which doesn't happen often.
After they took the prisoners out of the cloisters g was so distracted waiting for the Rushton moment I didn't pay much attention to what was happening and had to reread some.
I finished it this morning. I agree that it isn't my favorite in the series, it's about a par with Ashling. I'm so so glad I reread it though. I picked up so many things in it that I hadn't in the other times I'd read it. I think it is also the first time rereading it after reading The Sending. There is so much foreshadowing that although I don't particularly like some of the events that occur in the book I still found a beauty to the story. Some foreshadowing in it includes the shawl made for Elspeth and the glass statue of her with all the animals. Anyone who has read The Sending will understand why. I also think that these experiences and indeed all experiences that Elspeth has had has all been in preparation for the ultimate part of her quest.
After finishing it there are all these theories flying around my head. So see spoilers if you want to hear them.
For example, I believe that Dragon has such an aversion to Elspeth after coming out of the coma because Elspeth has now become apart of her past. This is due to being on the dream trails when Elspeth is trying to help Dragon come to grips with her past. Elsepth has become apart of Dragon's history as whatever happens on the dream trails happens in reality. Also, The gate keeper at the Red Queen's palace seem to recognize Elspeth so I'm wondering if that is the soldier guard captain from Ashling or someone connected to him. Then of course this is the book where Elspeth begins to believe that Ariel is the destroyer. Even though Galtha neither denies or confirms that it is, he tells her that Ariel is H'ryka. A good point was made to me that Ariel may not be the one to 'push the button' so to speak but is maybe more part of providing the way for the destroyer to be able to do so. This helps to explain why Ariel on the dream trails tells Elspeth that he 'needs her'.
I'm also deathly afraid that there is a discrepancy between Farskeers and The Keeping Place. I honestly thought that in Farseekers, Jik, Kella and Matthew get caught in Aborium by herders and taken to the cloister there not in Sutrium as The Keeping Place keeps mentioning. I'm really confused, so if someone, anyone, could enlighten me please do!
Graceling - I always assumed the cloister discrepancy was an error!
I'm hope that's the case but the way I read it appeared to me that it isn't. I got the impression that Elspeth honestly believed that the cloister was in Sutrium. I'm definitely prepared to be wrong. I almost don't care as the brilliance of writing and plot outweigh the discrepancy.
There are so many cloisters about, we can just pretend they got moved from one to another :P
Regarding your theory on Dragon though:
I've always just assumed her dislike was linked to the fact that Elspeth was the one who essentially put her in the coma, and, without her memories from beforehand, she could only associate Elspeth with the pain the put her into the coma--or something like that anyway. But this is all kind of flimsy.
Considering the fact that when Dragon /does/ get her memories (all of them) of herself back in The Sending, I think your theory is probably unlikely too, as nothing of the sort of Elspeth being there was mentioned (though I haven't reread this one yet).
Though it's still an interesting idea--that some form of time travel may be possible through the mindstream. The implications with the mindstream are that it is a compilation of experiences and memories of all those who have passed and who will pass, so could memories in the mindstream be altered and fed back to their original host, since linear time is kinda a non-issue in the mindstream? It wouldn't matter that the host has (or hasn't) already become a part of the mindstream. There also would not be any actual /physical/ time travel happening as such, which I think is necessary since the physical powers of the misfits is minimal--I think Elf is the only one to have shown any kind of psychokinesis--so physically transporting oneself through time, even with the help of the mindstream, seems unlikely). But if memories in the mindstream could be altered by someone entering the mindstream, it would literally just be a kind of coercion. Those who 'made' the memory would just believe that the alter was really there, even if they psychically weren't.
Though, the fact that Elspeth experiences the memories in the mindstream as a third person onlooker hinders this.
Hmmm I agree with Sioanainn in that it's more likely that Dragon's repulsion towards Elspeth was based on her causing the pain before the coma, however while Elspeth is an observer in almost all dreams, in this one other protagonists within the dream interacted with her so it may be that she became a part of the memory that Dragon was reliving. I also agree though that her behaviour towards Elspeth in The Sending sort of disproves that...though both might be true and the memory of the friendship was stronger.
**I have really bad toothache and ear infection, so it's hard for me to think of words**
She may have become part of the memory/nightmare. or the memory OF the nightmare. Elspeth entered the nightmare that dragon was stuck in, which was a distortion of the suppressed memories.
I think kids remember things in odd ways, with exaggeration on the things that really matter to them and distortions because of the emotion attached.
Think of your own earliest memories. It will almost always be a strong emotion, and may not be very accurate. (Mine is a GIANT green balloon popping on the rough bricks of my childhood home, We left there when I was about 4)
Maruman points out (when they visit the doors) that what they do in the dream trail memories will change other dream trail memories. So no, Elspeth did not visit Dragon's actual past. However, her face may remind dragon of the nightmare of her mother's death.
I couldn't stop after The Keeping Place, I read The Stone Key in a couple of days and now i'm halfway through the sending. I wanna talk about it so bad.
Also I might start a thread on the actual writing of the book. contradictions, etc.
I think you make a good point. After starting the TSK (which I'm almost finished reading) I realized that, as much as I loved the idea, it wasn't as plausible as I thought. Though I like your idea of Elspeth's face reminding Dragon of her nightmare.
Start a TSK thread, I feel like not many people are able to keep to the one book a month restriction. Too much reading, not enough talk. They're just so good!
I would find a thread on the actual writing of the book very interesting, just saying.
Yes, children often recall events because of a particularly strong attached emotion.
Please tell me if I am incorrect, and I know that Dragon has already remembered Elspeth (in The Sending) but because Elspeth may have impacted/made herself part of the bad memory on the dreamtrails, could she go on the dream trials and fix it? Just by visiting a memory/dream does she become part of it? Could she maybe have associated herself with positive memories to even out or would this be too much for Dragon's mind?
Maybe we should wait for September as TSK is the Book Club choice for that month, and TS for October...I do know some people who are trying to stay in the brackets because they want to be able to put TS down and pick up The Red Queen so as not to be driven mad all over again by the cliffhanger!
I kind of just assumed that Dragon's aversion was because Elspeth was in the memories now, or at least Dragon had memory of her time in the coma and that Elspeth was there, thus connecting her to the bad memories. I have completely forgotten what happens in The Sending, so that might change my mind.
Reading through, I just kept forgetting when things were happening, I kept being like, why didn't Elspeth go to see the underwater statue yet (oh right that's later), then wait was Malik's betrayal in TSK or what, then I was really surprised at just how short Dragon's mind passage was. I seriously thought that that was like 100 pages or something, lucky if it was 50, so I started thinking it was in the next book.
And at the end I thought that we were going to have some 'help' to save Rushton, but that must be TSK.
I was also a bit surprised at the fact that a lot happens, and not a lot. Like we're at Obernewtyn for nearly all of the book! I guess this is the one in the series where we actually get to see a lot more of Obernewtyn and all the things that happen there, which is nice, but I did actually reflect back that it felt as though not a huge amount happens in the first half (of course the second half more than makes up).
I'm sure it's been discussed before, but was there really significance to the glass statue, like, was it actually a sign or not?
I guess we'll find out. What was the phrase, I think it's
"Through the transparency of now, the future."
Maybe it's just a sign to Elspeth to prove that she's the one Cassy dreams about.
OH, I think later on... possible Sending spoiler:
When Jacob talks about the key in his journal Elspeth figures that the key must have been sent to hannah at obernewton in the statue to keep it secret
Am part way through - Jakoby and Bruna have arrived at Obernewtyn. Just wondering at this point why no Sadorians seem to have misfit abilities? They want to take a beastspeaker/someone who can use fingerspeech to Sador, so they can communicate with animals. How is it that none in their society seem to have beastspeaking talent? Is it something to do with the submerging in the Isis pools, so only the Earthtemple Guardians have talent (they mentioned having seers in Ashling, which would be anything from True Dreaming to Futuretelling, I guess). But that would suggest that talents are a result of radioactive exposure, not a natural evolution (despite the catalyst of the Great white speeding up development).
It just seems odd that after the Battlegames/Sador progressing with their new ideals about animals, that no previously-hiding Sadorians misfits revealed themselves. I have to wonder if Talents are localised, and whether none in the Red Land will have talent (though, Dragon and her mother did, but perhaps they were the only ones - and, the original Red Queen was placed there by Cassy and Hannah anyway)?
Do the gypsies have misfit abilities behind their natural shields? They also talked about seers of a kind, in Ashling.
Hey...Ariel calls Elspeth "Elspethelf" in one of her dreams, then says "That's what your brother used to call you, isn't it?"
Where did he get this information from? He couldn't have read it from Elspeth's mind (could he?) since she's so well shielded.
From Jes himself..? *Does* Ariel have Jes hidden away somewhere?
Really enjoying re-reading TKP. Loved the tour of the teknoguild caves, and the moon fair.
Yeah that is a little strange about the Sadorians, why are there not other Misfits who are not Templeguardians (further to that, in TSK one of them made out like they couldn't stop hearing Elspeth's thoughts, which confounds me for two reasons, because Elspeth has a strong shield normally, and two, everyone else can choose whether or not to hear). Is it just a fact we haven't seen them?
The Elspethelf part, well, could it have been from Matthew (he certainly knew, but that would mean they crossed paths), or perhaps Rushton/Domick during the torture, not sure whether that fits chronologically (but did they know that?). Of course he could just have Jes, which I think is highly possible.
the temple guardian did answer Elspeth's thoughts, and said they could NOT hear them, which I took to mean either a different kind of talent, or just really strong farseeking. Seems more like empathy, in that the shields just don't matter. Perhaps the isis taint that caused the physical disabilities caused a bigger mutation in the abilities.
Gypsies can see auras, and therefore know when people are lying. It seems like some abilities are racially separated. would be good to see some sadorians with powers, though.
I assumed that the ariel she was dreaming about was part of her dream when he said that. I think she dreamed of him long before he actually tried to reach out to her.
Actually the guardian says "I am a kasanda" ... Elspeth asks if it is discourteous to listen to her private thoughts... "I would think it discourteous, if I had the means to prevent myself hearing them."
Mm Ariel might well be part of her dream
exactly, she can't prevent herself hearing them.
I noticed that too Min, about Ariel knowing Elspeth's nickname...I did have the idea that maybe Cameo said it when he was torturing her back in Obernewtyn, because I know she read it from Elspeth's mind as she said it to her right before she died so maybe it's possible.