That is true, however IC doesn't read the theories boards and the theory being discussed here doesn't mean IC was asked about it at interviews. Personally, I don't think Matthew is particularly obvious, I'm more inclined to say that Daffyd is the obvious choice, but that's just me. All I'm saying is that we don't have sufficient grounds to rule Matthew out of the contention.
I think that IC wouldn't tell anyone anything that would give any form of major spoiler away, whether it be to do with the Destroyer or some completely minor character. It's to keep us guessing - and I bet when we find out half of us will say 'I knew it!' and the other half will be: '[act]scratches head[/act]... Say what?' :P
I didn't know IC didn't read the theory boards! Good on her. :) I wouldn't be able to stay away...
I personally don't think Matthew is obvious either, but then again the characters that are that close to Elspeth aren't obvious, from her point of view. A character like Daffyd would be more obvious, because they've been there for ages and just keep popping up. I think Elspeth's just too fixed on the idea that it's Ariel for it to possibly be anyone else in her mind.
I'm sort of new-old (I've read the books for years and I was a member of the forum back in like 2004, but dropped off the face of the earth and just created a new account) and I've been trying to read through all the theories but haven't quite made it so someone may have already suggested this, but:
re: the Destroyer being male--if I'm not mistaken, doesn't Elspeth learn this through the Agyllians? And when she first meets the Agyllians in TF, they can't tell if she's male or female. (Admittedly they don't have Atthis's wisdom but it's not like she's been physically hanging out with humans.) My other fandom is ASOIAF so obviously my first thought is that it's a Dany situation, where the male pronoun is used as a default but the Agyllians don't really understand human sexes/genders in the same way humans do. Again, really sorry to bring this up if it's already been addressed elsewhere!
I don't think that particular point has been. I was always under the assumption that the Agyllians that had picked up Elf were quite young though, and that was part of the reason why they had not been able to pick her gender (also they seemed kinda cocky, all 'pfft, humans! Am I right?', haha, so I doubt they'd even be likely to care about her gender). Though, I can't actually remember who stated exactly that the Destroyer was male--it's been awhile since I've read the books.
But really, I believe anything is possible at this point.
I agree that it could be two separate people and that Ariel would be one of them.
Also, I know this has already been bought up and dismissed but I think Jes is the Destroyer. It's stated in one of the earlier books that the Destroyer also has the ability to kill with their mind alone as Elspeth does. So far, the only character in the series who has shown that ability is Jes when he killed the soldiergaurd. The story has been written in a way so that Jes may not actually be dead. IC isn't going to tell anyone who the Destroyer is or give hints about it because it would ruin the story. I think his character will be re-introduced in the last book and it will be a bitter-sweet ending.
If we consider the possibility that the gendered language of the agyllians is mistaken, then i think Cassy might be the destroyer. Cassy's destiny was to find and destroy the weapon machines, another born to the same task as elspeth( her method was to do this through elspeth). She was 'introduced' to some extend in the first book when Elspeth see's the doors and learns what caused the great white. She is a future teller at present but we know she is mixing with misfits who have been experimented on in the before time. I think it's possible she is captured and, at the very least, her killing talent emerges from experiments performed on her. Ideally, talents that mirror Elspeths also emerge. It might also be possible that she becomes the lynch pin of the sentinel project. That the sentinal couldn't be created or couldn't perform without a human mind. Maybe cassy's new skill-set makes her the ideal candidate. Maybe Cassy is programed, without her knowledge, to protect sentinal while her life aim is to destroy it....
I am in the process of re-reading all the books so have come back to obernet to theorise (I have no idea when the last time I was here was... it may have even been before it changed to this site!!). Any way, I am about 3/4 of the way through the sending and have just come across the bit where Elspeth has fallen in a rock slide while climbing down from the observatory. She is knocked unconscious (and I think is pretty much on death's door) when she encounters Straaka's spirit. Straaka speaks of the "dark mad spirit which seeks you" (the destroyer) and says that the oldOnes told him that that spirit would not be able to rise so high "unless the flesh to which it was linked was dangerously ill". Elspeth then believes she is being told Ariel is ill. My theory is that Rushton is the destroyer. We learn he is ill aboard the ship on the way to the Red Queens Land and I think Ariel is using Rushton to get to Elspeth. So yes, Ariel is the Hy'raka, but Rushton is the destroyer.
That's interesting - I assumed that the 'dark mad spirit which seeks you' was Analivia's brother, Moss (who has Dragon in tow), or Dragon herself (since we know her dreamform can travel the dreamtrails fairly well already)?
Wow kelbelle, you have actually blown my mind with that. Until now I never truly considered Rushton as a candidate for the destroyer, but that, that gives me pause.
Especially given Ariel's role as "one who brings destruction" as it is arguably Ariel's actions which lead Rushton to travel to the Red land. It would also explain Athis's reluctance to save him, though not her ultimate decision to.
Not to mention the symmetry it would have with the Alyda scrolls in the legend song about the chaos spirit's desire for destruction being a kind of love and IC loves echoing themes through her books.
Kelbelle that actually makes so much sense. i wouldn't have thought that Rushton was seeking her to hurt her though - just kinda crazy when he's sick and missing elspeth so subconsciously looking for her but out of love ... and then if Ariel is still able to control him because of what he did in TKP he will try and use him against elspeth at the end - but then because elspeth actually told rushton everything (then made him forget again) maybe ariel won't be able to control him because he will remember in time or something
the only thing that doesn't click is that i don't think rushton can kill with his mind ... but what were the exact words - a mind that mirrors your's or something - i can't remember if it was specifically said that the othermind could kill - maybe rushton's mind mirrors elspeths mind because they are soul mates or something
i always kinda thought that Jes would be the destroyer - like maybe the soldier guards/herders kept him prisoner or sold him as a slave and then ariel found him and started making him crazy so that he could use him against elspeth
also quick question - is ariel only an empath? cus i swear that in the earlier books that was all that he was , and also that he needed domicks coercive ability to torture rushton - but then i think that somewhere elspeth talks about his coercive talents - can't remember exactly where but probably in TSK or the sending
It is in TSK, in the beforetime complex below the library, Domik tells Elspeth that Ariel is a weak coercer while explaining what happened when they were kidnapped.
Ariel's also said to be an Enthraller in The Sending, when Elspeth's talking about how they have finally defined the Talent.
Rushton as Destroyer is an interesting idea, it certainly makes sense about the 'close to death' part. And after all, he also does if secretly, know about the weaponmachines. It would be devastating if Rushton is the destroyer though.
Could it be that Rushton 'accidentally' is the Destroyer. Like, he hears about where Elspeth is and goes to save/help her but then inadvertedently makes thngs worse. Or is the Destroyer's purpose and goal to consciously end the world/what do they think they are doing with the weaponmachines? On that does the Destroyer currently know they are the Destroyer, or do they just take the opportunity when it arises to use the weaponmachines. If the latter, then how do they do that, is it a matter of taking advantage of Elspeth's work at the last minute, which is what I kinda think will happen.
If they are conscious of being the Destroyer, then Rushton being it is really concerning since he's that means he's been plotting for the world to end. And is it certain that the Destroyer would literally destroy the world, there's not some metaphoric possibility here? (long time since reading so I'm unsure if it says that specifically the Destroyer uses the weaponmachines and leaves it completely radioactive - I have a feeling that might be the case)
i think it would make more sense for him to accidentally be the destroyer (if he was the destroyer) or to be the destroyer because ariel controls him - because if he was consciously aware he was the destroyer wouldn't elspeth have seen it when he found out she was the seeker - i don't think he would be able to hide something that big
I can't remember how much (if any) was confirmed by IC, but certainly most of our theories seem to be based on the idea that the Destroy is unaware of their destiny and will complete it either accidentally or under extreme emotional stress. Given that we haven't seen any of their direct actions throughout the entire series this seems the most likely; with them being guided/manipulated by Ariel as H'rayka.
Sian, I hadn't thought of the Legendsong/Lanalor connection. It does seem rather likely that the same themes will come into play.
(On a side note, Lanalor himself is pretty much a metaphorical Destroyer, what with imprisoning the Unykorn...)
What if... what if the Destroyer is Marisa Seraphim, and SHE'S the angry spirit chasing after Elspeth? Ariel could be bringing her along with him via a similar mental connection as Elspeth seems to share with Cassy
Just about the Rushton theory. Him as Destroyer by accident, maybe, but Elspeth's been into his deepest mind and if he had any intentional evil plans, she would surely have seen them?
Also, I know this has been mentioned multiple times in various places, but I'm just doing a reread and on page 280 of my edition of Farseekers, Atthis clearly refers to the Destroyer as 'he'. Although, having said that, as the Agyllian have difficulty telling male and female funaga apart, that may not mean much!
Yes Marta but as Min pointed out, the sex of the Destroyer is actually more ambivalent in recent publications.. or to put it more clearly, H'rayka is a male but the Destroyer could be either. That's my theory, anyway, and it explains the point of Marisa in the first place. When you think about it the info about the weaponmachines could have been worked out by references, whatever... Marisa to me has always felt like a half-completed storyline, like there was more to her. If she was determined and angry enough when she died (and being murdered by Alexi might do that to a person) she could have kept her spirit from the mindstream and been "haunting" the dreamtails ever since. We know she could/did take over Cameo; who's to say Ariel didn't become aware of her and either join forces or use her - convince her somehow that he's on her side like he did with the Druid.
Okay that's all beginning to sound a bit convulated but still. It could happen! *shakes fist*
This is why I need to do the reread :). And we did have Straaka floating around for a while after he died, so a vengeful Marisa is not illogical!
Oh - while it's ambiguous in later editions, I think this is intentional to try and make the identity of the Destroyer more questionable, not that the identity of the Destroyer has changed. Before Isobelle mentioned it (a while back, maybe when TKP came out?) everyone just assumed it was Ariel.
I think the 'he' in earlier publications is correct, but that in later editions when Isobelle had the opportunity to edit, she made little changes like that so there'd be less assumptions (she also changed that mysterious boy who Jes and co band together with from an unnamed boy, to actually have a name - I used to constantly theorise that the mysterious boy was Ariel, because he was away from Obernewtyn at that time, and that he was baiting misfits into revealing themselves by being one of them, in order to take them away for Herder business, before that edit).
Well to be honest I've always kind of hoped that the Destroyer IS Ariel, simply because giant twists of the nature that it not being him would be annoy me. I don't mind a little mystery but completely misleading the audience and picking seemingly at random unlikely-yet-technically-possible straws often feels cheap to me... I have enough faith in IC to know that she wouldn't do that though. And I think she's been quoted as saying it will seem obvious once it happens? Anyway, on first read I never even questioned it being Ariel - it was these fan boards that started that theory for me! - and I'd like it to be him just for that. Marisa is more of a "tinfoil hat" theory than anything else lol, as I said I always found her story intriguing and thought that she wouldn't have been introduced with the abilities she had without a reason... it wouldn't feel completely unnatural if it was her anyway. More importantly (unlike either Daffyd or Matthew, equal contenders otherwise) to my knowledge nobody has asked IC about it being her.
But yeah.. ultimately my preferred Destroyer is Ariel.
I totally agree about Marisa being an interesting character whose story feels unfinished. She could well be skulking around the Dreamtrails, too (as in The Sending we saw a few signs of people who had died still hanging around there). What always interested me about Marisa (which I did a theory post on a loooooong time ago - thread has since been pruned I think) was that she commissioned the doors of Obernewtyn. The doors that showed the location of the weaponmachines (though, I have vague recollections of a later book saying the gypsies brought the doors with the important stuff already on them, and she asked for additional carvings on it).
If she DID know about the location of weaponmachines, which her diary suggests she did (since it's after "reading" the diary Elspeth realises it's the doors), then Marisa is more likely a tool of the Agyllians, and technically a good guy/helping Elspeth. That's what I find so interesting about her anyway - was she as mad and rough as Maruman because she was a misfit herself and tampered with by the Agyllians to serve the Seeker's quest?
Min I think the gypsies brought the panels with the keys on them and Marisa had the location carved in around them.