Sidebar filling, I wonder what that would taste like on a sandwich?
On one of the interviews here Isobelle states that Dameon is in love with Elspeth. She has also said that at talks I've been to. I doubt that she would have changed her mind for the last book.
Just wondering but
But don't the efari seem a bit like the citizen gods from scatterlings? for me it did..
Ok. So I finished it late last night!!
What an amazing book. It is by far the best (in my opinion), and yet STILL so many questions left unanswered.
There were a lot of twists in The Sending. I knew Elspeth had to leave Obernetwyn, but I really didn't think it would happen so soon! I was getting all excited about the thought of her going to the Red Land with Rushton, and then suddenly she's leaving. I loved her companions, although I did not expect them to be who they were! It was great seeing the new map!
I was not disappointed as such, I just wished there was more. IC wrote the first half of the book setting up Elspeths journey to the Red Land, but she didn't end up getting there! It was great to know how she was feeling - for Elf has always gaurded her feelings, and this book really laid her bare for the world to see! But I wanted them to get to the Spit and see Mathew and all his new allies and friends he had made! Plus Daffyd! But then suddenly Elspeth is sneaking away from Obernewtyn with little direction and knowledge of what she was actually doing!
I also felt that the journey was too spread out. The description was immaculate, but I didn't find a whole lot of it necessary. A lot of it could have been condensed. I think the good thing that came from it was that I had a thorough idea of where they were in my head :P
What I loved, however, was the increased participation from the animals! The relationship between equines and humans was so strong! I found this book, more than the others, had more cooperation between humans and equines. I loved how Faraf calls Dameon ''my funaga''. It was so sweet, and yet such a stepping stone for a beast.
So many questions....
I guess the main thing I was so happy about was that there was more Beforetime references and scenes, and yet I still have so many questions!!
Finished! :D Here sidebar I feed you my thoughts. Warning: thoughts may not be coherent and therefore may be poisonous.
Yay! The Sending! It took me awhile to read but I loved it.
Cinda! Elkar! I was so happy we got to meet them again. They are two of my favourite characters. :)
Several things in the book have pointed arrows at Rushton being the Destroyer. The fact he must go to the Redland and that it was foreseen, him being seriously ill and the Agyllians saying that they did not expect the Destroyer to be able to fly so high. And the only way they could be able to do so would be to be seriously ill. Even though Elspeth's true dream as Rushton when he was ill came awhile after this was said, the dreams mayn’t have been in the exact present. But then again, the last time Elspeth saw Mathew in the Redland he was sick. Though that too was awhile ago. So I'm quite sure the Destroyer is either Rushton or Mathew because both have associated with Ariel; the one who brings destruction (i.e. manipulates).
Rushton being missing, when supposedly having already returned to Obernewtyn was amusing, after my initial *Oh-no*, because I thought of it as IC's joke on us. :P
Unlike some others, I wasn't miffed by the pairing up of most of the characters. I saw it as Elspeth, opening her eyes for the first time, when she realizes she must soon leave, to the people around her and seeing things that she may have ignored while preoccupied by thoughts her quest and her characterised isolation. Iriny and Rolf? Startling.
@Raychi - If that were so, Elspeth's child becoming leader of the Twentyfamilies, does that mean that Elspeth is a gypsy? Sort of? Because my mind keeps returning to a dream Elspeth had in Ashling where Garth says, "You see Elspeth. This means you are really a Gypsy." But I'm convinced she has some blood connection with the Gypsies. (Perhaps related to Cassy Duprey?) Something obvious, because in that same dream Garth also says something like, "Funny, how such a thing could be hidden in plain sight." Bearing in mind though, that these quotes aren't accurate and I have no means to check them because my copy of Ashling is on loan. :P
Elspeth having companions on her quest, apart from Darga, Gahltha and Maruman, was great but admittedly it felt wrong for her to speak of Sentinel and her quest so openly. The liking between Analivia and Swallow was unexpected but sweet.
I’ve been thinking, as have many others, that the Efari must be robots that worked in the Eden Project, which would explain them capturing Miryum and supposedly putting her in a cryogenic sleep. Their programs didn’t shut off after the Great White and they continued their work. Since no-one had come to that area for some time, perhaps they saw Miryum as a rare specimen to be preserved.
But if they are not robots, then perhaps human consciousnesses in suits. Sort of like Dr. Who’s Silence in the Library or the protector of the Topaz in Deltora Quest (a soul living on in armor).
That’s basically all I’ll say for now. And; Ohmigosh, the Sending, ROLL-OF-HAPPINESS! :rolling:
I'd never noticed that line in Obernewtyn before. Is it wrong that my initial reaction was "But that's completely impossible!"? (The phases of the moon have to do with it's position with respect to the Sun and the Earth and a full moon always goes from Sunset to Sunrise. In fact, if the moon weren't on an elliptical orbit, we'd have a luna eclipse every night because it would have to pass through the Earth's shadow. But I'll shut up now)
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I don't think Rushton is The Destroyer! Atthis specifically tells Elspeth that if she goes into the mindstream they both will die and the Destroyer will win. If Rushton was the Destroyer then surely him dying wouldn't enable him to win!
Matthew seems like the safest bet but also too obvious. There has to be a connection between Entina and Sentinal considering Entina is just Sentinal without the S at the start and the L at the end.
just a though on the weapon machines on the moon skyekittie said how they could be on the moon. That makes sense and all - but i don't know how they would get to them - it seems like there wouldn't be enough time. Also if they just self-destructed them from earth - would that completely ruin the lunar module? Wouldn’t that like mess up a whole lot of things? Maybe the moon has something to do with finding the way to the weapon machines?
Miss Gypsy it would make sense if the weapons were on the moon but not the computer that controls them
i don't mean that the controls are on the moon, just that the moon may be significantly involved in finding the way to the weapon machines
La la la la la I sing for the sidebar!
A few people have mentioned the stone sword being the scepter of the Red Queen, or containing the scepter inside it, however I don't believe this can be. The scepter is with the bald headed "gatekeeper" of Dragon's memories in TKP - he's the one who stabbed Dragon's mum and did away with the girls. There was a snippet somewhere in TKP of a bald headed man holding a scepter, and though Elspeth doesn't connect it as being the same guy from Dragon's memories, that is WAY too big a coincidence. That's why I think the scepter is still in the Red Land - the "gatekeeper" has it! Maybe Dragon will need to get it back from him in order to help convince the slaves to rise up, or maybe after they win the Red Land, Dragon will be presented with the scepter during her coronation.
I don't have page references at the moment, but I'll try and find them...
EDIT: Found them! Thanks to some help from the Encyclopedia :D
Page numbers are all from the orange spine copies.
He is first mentioned on pp 445-446 of Ashling.
Then again in TKP, here is the page I was referring to where we see him with the scepter:
The Keeping Place pg228:
To speak of other matters scarcely less sorrowful, I dreamed last night of Matthew. A true dream, instinct tells me, though I dreamed it only once. In the dream, he stood naked on a wooden block, a collar about his neck from which dangled a heavy potmetal chain. A strangely clad man was examining his teeth and he allowed it, but there was anger in his eyes. He turned and I saw that there were whip scars on his back. At the front of the people standing about watching the slave sale, for so I assume it, there was a bald man with sly calculating eyes. He wore a red robe and a gold brow circlet set with jewels. I suppose he is some kind of ruler for he carried a stick tooled in gold and encrusted with precious stones all formed into the shape of a writhing dragon...
And then he is again mentioned, of course, in Dragon's memories, starting from TKP pg 723 and continuing until they are on the ship.
I write "gatekeeper" because I think it's obvious he isn't one at all - I think that is just how Dragon's memories chose to represent him to Elspeth, to compact it all in to one neat little package. The section in Ashling backs this up as it is a different occurance to what we see in Dragon's memories in TKP. What he says in Ashling, "who would ever guess it was me?" (paraphrased) is obviously silly - we know that Dragon knows it was him. Anyway, obviously he is some kind of adviser, a major domo or something. Certainly someone with a lot of power very close to the Red Queen, who decided he wanted more power. When Dragon's mother refused to make him her escort, he resorted to killing her.
And that's why I think the stone sword isn't the scepter :)
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I think with the whole moon thing, it really depends on how far into the future the Beforetime is actually set in. I think Pavo once mentioned something about rockets (he mentions it in Farseekers, I think), so I was just assuming that space travel was a bit more advanced then it is right now.
I like your idea, but Maruman does mention that the moon is evil. Wouldn't it be the opposite if the moon led to the weapons?
I'm new here but definetly not new to the Obernewtyn series. I started reading them before Ashling came out. Yes I'm old. :)
Just a couple of observations thoughts on The Sending...
Has it been suggested before that Mirymum could be the Destoryer?? It hadn't occured to me before but the reference to them being sick I couldn't help but think of Mirymum sick from crossing the tainted ground etc... She's also someone that make impulsive decisions and acts irrationally, a prime candidate for being the Destoryer unwittingly. Also Elspeth is on her way or already with in the city.
Another thing I'm wondering... Did Isobelle deliberately choose these particular words or is it a concidence? When Elspeth is talking to Maryon it is mention that Ariel and Dragon are Keystones. Stone Key. Keystone. Stone Key ???????
Candy Mountain! Candy Mountaint! You fill me with sweet sugary goodness!
Mono, on your second comment,
I think that while history rests on Ariel and Dragon's shoulders, there are a finite number of paths that it could take, it's predictable to a certain extent. Elspeth on the other hand, I imagine that she is like a tornado and the future is like a road. She tears it up and throws it to the wind. The pieces may land anywhere.
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maybe Maurman says it is evil because it shows the way to evil if someone has the right knownledge to use it for that???
i don't know - but i guess we'll find out
Okay, finally got my copy on Friday and finished it on Saturday night, so I can comment to my heart's content.
Sidebar-filler, nothing to see here, move along.
So, first point: The moon. Although there are many instances of Maruman specifically looking at the moon and cursing it, does he ever give it the name 'moon' in his cursing? Or does he always refer to it as 'the whiteface'? In light of the White-Faced Lords, this gets a little interesting. (I recognise that the beasts have a lot of different words to humans for various things, although they tend to be made up language, not, for want of a better description, English words combined in different ways.) So might we be looking at things in totally the wrong light when we say Maruman hates the moon because the weaponmachines are there? What he hates is 'the whiteface'. Of course, this could be a red herring.
2: The efari. Wow, I got such a Scatterlings vibe. Okay, so my first reaction was an absolute visceral horror at the fact that there was an entire society of people living around the corner from the Land, and they had no idea. That's always what I've found the most chilling about the world of Obernewtyn - not that it's post-apocalyptic, not that people are cruel, but that they live in such profound ignorance. One of my favourite things about modern life is how connected it is, how I can be an Australian studying in England taking a year abroad in Germany talking to people in Australia and this is totally normal. The loss of such connectedness really terrifies me.
Judging by what's been said in previous books about cryogenics, the efari are clearly a combination of Beforetimers who had knowledge of the Great White and believed the only way to survive it was to put themselves in cryogenic sleep until it was safe to emerge, and their descendants. I hadn't considered that they were also the Eden Project, but that's just because I tend to focus on the human-related plot strands and less on the beast-related ones (I know this makes me a bad fan, but that's just the way it is) so I wasn't really thinking about the Eden Project. But that theory makes a lot of sense.
3: Dameon. Is the Destroyer. I think I'm going to nail my colours to the mast about this one. I discuss this more in another thread, but it occurred to me that we may be interpreting the whole Dameon-shields-his-thoughts-from-Elspeth thing from the wrong angle. Perhaps it's not because he doesn't want her to find out about his unrequited love, but rather because he wants to keep her from finding out about his role as the Destroyer. Someone mentioned up-thread that if he were the Destroyer, why would Atthis send him, but does the 'voice' that Elspeth's companions all heard have to have come from Atthis necessarily? And if the voice was Atthis', does that negate the fact that he could be the Destroyer? The tasks of the Seeker and the Destroyer are inextricably linked. They are bound together in much the same way as Harry Potter and Voldemort. I need to think things over more, because I honestly don't believe that Dameon is a bad person at all, so I can't figure out his motive. But there are things about him that make me suspicious.
4: If he's not the Destroyer, my money is on Selmar or Rosamunde. I need to think a bit more about why I suspect them before I can explain it.
I think that's enough for now.
Ok, so I have had the book for a while but due to stuff going on I haven't gotten very far through it. But I have just gotten to the part where Elspeth leaves to meet the Brildane. Now, obviously this is not going to be her quest because then there wouldn't be another book right? But does she meet up with Rushton again? because I was enjoying them finally having something together!!! (no need to answer, it is rhetorical :P )
I finally got my hands on The Sending and have arranged some thoughts, many as they are:
Seely’s dream about Gavyn and Rasial – the pair have disappeared. They could be searching for the Brildane to bring them back to Elspeth, hence Seely’s dream in which they lead the wolves. Alternatively, we may not need to see the wolves again. After Rheagor saw his pack walking with Elf’s, but that doesn’t mean they got to the city together. I’ve believed for some time that Gavyn is the more likely Innle, just not acknowledged, and that Seely’s dream shows him leading the beasts (or some of them) to freedom. Oh and Gilbert’s dream about Elspeth being surrounded by snarling wolves in a black and barren place could possibly have been before they arrive at the graag.
Swallow + Analivia = [act]squee[/act] I am so happy I was right about them. I only hope that Analivia doesn’t die.
Kella + Darius = another [act]squee[/act] I had hoped that Kella would come to her senses. On a similar matter, it annoyed me greatly that Elspeth had forgotten that Kella had already left Sutrium before news of Domick reached there.
On the Eden project: I believe that this was in the Red Land, and was the Red Queen’s garden that Dragon was in in her memories, because Doktaruth mentioned plant samples and the like would be stored as a part of the project so that habitats could be rebuilt in the future should the need arise. Somehow someone stumbled on some seeds, or during the Great White some became lodged in the ground and a garden began to grow.
I found the journey to join the Brildane a bit longwinded at times, but I think that was mostly because I was getting annoyed at her theorising somewhat incorrectly about Jacob. If I hadn’t have read The Dark Road, I’m sure I would have joined her speculation a lot more than I did. That said, I did enjoy it, and I think it was important for Elspeth as it was a journey that allowed her to grieve, to accept that she would not know the future until it happened, and to simply move on with her quest.
I was getting quite frustrated with Elspeth toward the end, as she knows part of what Dragon needs to share with her/show her, from the time she spent in Dragon’s memories. I’m pretty sure that in The Stone Key she hasn’t forgotten that the sign has something to do with the gravemarker of Luthen, but in The Sending she’s entirely oblivious.
I noticed that Kader seems to have left Oldhaven, but I didn’t come across anyone else who had left to return to Obernewtyn.
I must admit I was so disappointed when Maruman showed up, that I wished he’d stayed away, because he took Elf away from Rushton. My favourite part in the book was the first part, particularly the urgent lemons bit, because it was so refreshing to have Elspeth let down her guard entirely, to forget for a moment about her quest and just live as an ordinary person might. I cried when she was wrapping the chains around Rushton’s spirit form. And I cried after each mention of the futuretelling’s that said Elspeth would never return, and at Dameon’s belief that Maryon told Rushton he would never see Elspeth again. I forgave Maruman for taking Elspeth away when he told her he’d been holding Rushton to life. Had Rushton died I would have been devastated.
The Destroyer: Everyone (that is, the characters) seems convinced that it’s Ariel, not even considering that it might be someone else. I’ve narrowed down my possibilities to two people: Dameon and Daffyd, though I still believe it’s the former. I ruled out Matthew because when the Destroyer found Elspeth in the spirit/realm of colours place, the form was still that of a great ominous shadow. As Straaka said it would either be someone ill or very strong that could reach the level that the Destroyer had. Matthew had found himself on the Dreamtrails unwittingly during The Stone Key, Elspeth believing that had been because he was ill. That he took on his own form there, without knowing what to do or where he was, suggests that he isn’t the Destroyer, because the Destroyer’s spirit form is quite different. The Destroyer could be Daffyd, since we hadn’t seen him during the book, so it is possible that he was ill at some point, fitting in with the Destroyer, or he’s not the Destroyer. Dameon however is another matter for me. I didn’t get the impression that he was ill at any point journeying to or from Oldhaven, but I believe that his Talent is so strong that he can an extensive understanding of the spirit, which aids him in his life. If he understood the dreamtrails and how to navigate them, it is possible that he is the Destroyer, even unconsciously. Something to support that he is the Destroyer is the way he looked at Rushton we he first returned to Obernewtyn: with hostility. On pg 461 he acknowledges that he thought he felt Elspeth’s presence, which could suggest the look was meant for her. Now that he knows everything she knows about Sentinel, and is with her, he is in a good place to assume to role of Destroyer. If he dies however, it means that he was possibly not the Destroyer.
Just on a note on the theory that Elspeth will return to Obernewtyn, because it will have changed once becoming a shire: I agree, and something Maruman said actually supports it, because he tells her that she ‘never return to this barud’ (pg 337).
On Cinda: I loved that Isobelle included her. One thing that struck me about the earlier books was the limited amount of travel by anyone other than slavers. I think Cinda’s return is simply a way in which Isobelle can convey the freedom the rebellion has brought to not only the Land, but to the Norselands as well.
Hi all – I am a new member although have lurked over the years looking for release dates! I have recently finished TS and then reading through this thread and wanted to share some of my thoughts too :)
It’s a bit long!
(I don’t know how filling the sidebar works, but hopefully that will do it?)
Firstly, I really enjoyed TS and can’t wait for TRQ! But I guess since I first started reading more than 17 years ago I can wait a little longer :P. I can’t wait to hear the end but at the same time I don’t want this series to be over!
When she discovered the companions I was really scared! I couldn’t think how there could be people in the mountains unless they were dangerous! Once I knew who they were I felt a bit put out at first, as I was expecting Elspeth to have to be alone at the end, but I’ve warmed to the idea of people being with her. Although, I wonder why she had to see the carving of Luthen from Iriny when Swallow was going to end up being with her anyway?
Hearing about Analivia’s history with Moss I was thinking “I’ve heard this before” and then realised it is very similar to the story of Harriet with her father and brother in ‘The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo’. Then I read an interview here with Isobelle where she mentions Stieg Larsson’s Millennium trilogy – did anyone else think she was influenced by this?
I also suspected when I read that Analivia was a midwife that Elspeth might be pregnant. But Isobelle has set up so much previously that if that was her plan I imagine we would have been told that Analivia was a midwife when first introduced to her, rather than now. So probably she isn’t pregnant. Or maybe she always intended to have a midwife with the companions (a guess from another interview) and only recently decided to make it Ana. I wouldn’t mind if Elspeth had a baby :)
There’s one thing that confused me – Ahmedri makes it very clear that Straaka is his half-brother, but then talks about Straaka looking after him after their mother and father died?
I think Jacob will have died after his daughter brought Hannah’s bones to him, but Hannah Jr might still be alive.
I was a bit surprised by Angina dying, he didn’t seem that sick in previous books although he was never fully recovered from his injury. I understand why things happened how they did though – so that Elspeth could come to terms with her black power and how to use it.
I’m so glad Rushton and Elspeth finally got together! I always assumed they hadn’t done the deed yet (despite naked swimming! Although really that is a bit mean on Elspeth’s part) because Elspeth was so clear on how it would mean revealing everything to Rushton. I did think it odd that she asked questions about his past afterwards as I assumed she would know everything, but other people explaining how they think it might have worked (ie showing the deepest secrets and things the other person is most interested in) makes sense. I couldn’t believe she left the hand-fasting wreath behind though! Talk about a bad sign to Rushton!
I really enjoyed everyone else’s theories and surmises. I never imagined about the weapon machines being on the moon, or the efari being robots or that the Eden project might be the free-running barud. I’ll have to explore and read more here :)
I thought I was so clever figuring that Salamander is Jakoby’s sister, but now I see it is common understanding here :P
It was interesting to read here some of the theories about the Destroyer, although I always assumed it mustn’t be Ariel as that is too obvious. It’s funny you mention Selmar dolorosa, as I was thinking last night that it could be her! Because she was so strong (maybe as strong as Elspeth but without the black power?) but was damaged by Ariel (who ‘brings destruction’) and was the type of person who wanted to know everything. I was trying to remember if there was evidence that she died in the first book, or if Ariel just said that she died. I was also trying to remember if it is just Elspeth who refers to the Destroyer as ‘he’ or if anyone else did so too? Maybe it is just her assumption that the Destroyer is male? We’re getting ready to move and I’ve packed all my old books away – but now I want to find them and reread them to try to decide!
Otherwise I think the idea that Jes is still alive and the Destroyer sounds interesting too.
Looking forward to reading more here to make the wait for TRQ bearable! I’m also keen to read the Beforetime books that are planned – that’s one of the things I really like about this series, the combination of Fantasy and Science Fiction :)
No spoiler here :)
Just wanted to say Hi Feinna and might I guess from your name your also hanging out for the darkfall trilogy?
Hey guys, I have been reading this series since 1993 or 1994... It's been a looooong time!! Love reading all the theories on here, it has kept me going in between books ;)
LOVED the sending. Read it twice! First time was too quick wanting to know what HAPPENS so had to re-read for details - lol. Was expecting it to end on a cliffhanger and/or with lots of stuff unfinished considering she split one book into two, so I wasn't disappointed when it happened. A little disappointed maybe because we didn't get to see the "destination" at the end of the blackdeathroad but we at least know where she's headed.
Loved that fact that she has companions!! Totally didn't expect it but it makes sense now that we know a bit more about futuretelling and how she's not told the whole picture. I do think she had to believe that she would leave everyone behind and if she had known otherwise this would have affected the way she acted, especially if she knew she would see some people again but not Rushton.
I really hope that someone (Jacob, Hannah Jr, Cassie) is in stasis. I was thinking that if Elspeth can still fly the dreamtrails in stasis she will meet up with one of them (maybe because they are in the compound together) and get some vital information. Just a thought! Would also love to meet one of these characters... I think Cassie is a definite possibility especially as we know she just "vanished" from Sador and no one knows what happened to her.
The clue regarding the Tumen that Isobelle tweeted was "To escape the compound, Elspeth must understand the Tumen"... I am assuming the compound is the city where the cryo pods are... is the Tumen a code or language or is it the name of the people there and she has to understand how they live/work so she can find a way out... intruiging!
REALLY want to read "the dark road" again but it is packed up in a box at the moment which is very frustrating!!
I like the idea that someone had about Fian reading the gadi script on the stone sword and coming to find them with a safesuit or him having a task to do (maybe something waiting for them in the red land?) based on this. Alternately, I also like the idea that Dragon will be able to read the script! I do think it is a possibility that this is the sceptre she needs when she returns to her people.
Eden - In Dragon's memory in TSK, Elspeth learns that the RQ has a "garden" full of animals who are free. Maybe this is where the Eden project started and after the great white the animals were brought out of stasis and live in this habitat? The Queen was determined that people see beasts as equal to humans so perhaps this is the freerunning barud and Dragon will have a key part to play in this.
Dragon's memory "she does not know what she knows" - again, when Elspeth is in Dragon's memory right at the end of the memory, her mother tells her about Luthen's grave:
“I know you are young, but you must remember the day I showed you the grave marker of the first Red Queen. Beside that was the grave marker of her brother. I thought there would be time to impress it more indelibly on your mind. Yet you can remember if you try. You must remember, for someday one will come for what is hidden there, and it must be given lest the world fall into darkness.”
!!!!!! Maybe Dragon's memory will be triggered when she returns to the red land...
A few things I hope we learn in the next book:
- What the significance of the moon is... weaponmachines located there or a monitoring system of sentinel that "watches" the earth to see where weapons are being used... ??
- Swallow and Dragon's real names!
- What "seliga" means (my theory is that his spirit travels back in time)
- Will Elspeth "lose" her self-healing ability after all of this is over (if she lives) so she can live a normal life (i.e. grow old and die)?
Anyways, that's all for now :) Can't wait for the next book as per usual but I'm not going to hold my breath ;)
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On the topic of the Destroyer I'm also thinking it's either Dameon or Daffyd, but something Rushton says (as the bear) in the sending bothers me. "You drove the Destroyer from me," which makes me think possibly it's still Ariel? But I still think it's also a bit suspicious that Dameon is on the quest with Elspeth.
Eh. My thoughts on this still haven't really settled so sorry for the incoherency.
Sorcha, Rushton only knows about the destroyer through Elspeth's mind, so since she believes that Ariel is the destroyer he has to think that.