Keeper of the Sherbet Lemons
19 years ago
Keeper of the Sherbet Lemons
Guildmember
Well, it's really early in the morning/late at night, and i'm looking for something to do.
Normally at this time i would be curled up in bed with my trusty laptop (Alex) and be writing like a madwoman. It's something about this hour of the morning that sends me into creative fits.
But here i am, talking to you.
And i thought it would be time to have a discussion on how we write. We've all touched on this here and there, but i don't think we've ever really gone into it.
Ive always been highly interested in the way people write, namely because people always note that i have such a different way of doing things to others. Or maybe it's because it is in the nature of a writer to look at everything from different perspectives, and so we constantly look in on ourselves.
But whatever it is, I am always curious about how people write.
For myself, it is a complicated matter. From the production of ideas, to the placement on paper. I have always seen writers belonging to three groups in my head. Ones who can write a story from start to finish, and never deviate. Ones who map everything out carefully, and work to a sort of time-table, and then Ones who write all over the place, like if they were ever ordered, they would fall apart.
The last is always me. I can't write in an ordered manner to save my life, no matter how hard i try. But, strangely, i do have a structured manner. I write the beginning, the ending, the middle, and then a work backwards linking everything up.
This would make sense if i was writing a murder mystery, but i mainly write science fiction with not even a sub genre of mystery....
And then, there is another difference i've noticed, and i sometimes feel i am the only one who does this. Most writer i know write one story at a time. They focus on that, and don't move. They might stop writing on it for a while, and focus on another, but they only have one active story at a time.
I write upwards of twenty stories at once. And they are all very much active.
But then i am forced to realise that my weirdness goes deeper. Because i can never stick in the bounds of the story.
Kayt thinks I'm funny because i write fan fiction for my own stories.
Yes, you heard me right, i write FAN FICTION for my OWN stories.
She has now taken to rolling her eyes when i sigh horribly as i sit next to her in Gloria Jeans and say, 'i've started another one.'
The main source of these fan fictions is this one series i've been writing for...six years now... or is it eight, i never can tell, it's too late for maths. It is my only straight fanatsy piece. It has seven main stories, and these are connected solely by the fact that everyone in it ends up, or was born in the capital of the country, and in some way effects the way the country is run. For instance, the stories are of the Queen, the Head Healer, the Spymaster, the Captain of the Guard, the King's Champion, The King's Bodyguard, and the Head of Mages. Each story is about how they gained their position, bassically, there are a few twists and turns, as you would expect.
But the series is only really linked byt them being in the same place.
Then i got a bit confused, and decided to write some bullet points on how one of the characters grew up....
....it turned into a fan fiction on her beginnings. Then one character i mentioned in that fan fiction bread another story... and it has gone on like that.
Now i have a series with seven main stories, and two back stories and three back stories to the back stories, wth another three in my head waiting to be put on paper...
...now are we getting how weird i am?
So there we have it, and insight into how Flit's mind works. But it is not all. Maybe later, when i am in the mood, i will go into my characters, which is a favourite thing of mine... But i am interested to hear how everyone else functions...
so, if you managed to read all of this (it really is rambling, isn't it?) feel free to impart your knowledge on how you write... [img]http://s4.images.proboards.com/tongue.gif" alt=":P" border="0"/>
toodals!
Fan fiction for your own stories! I love it! I'd love to see one of your finished books - I think it would be a lot of fun to read. We'd get to the middle of a section and there'd be a little note saying: To read more of this apparently irrelevant character's life, please turn to appendix B. What fun!
But now, I shall get to what you've all been eagerly waiting for - the tim tams! I mean, how do I write? I do it in a terribly boring, linear kind of way. Sometimes, I get stuck and I wonder if I should skip the stuckness and go ahead to a later scene... but I can never bring myself to do it. It feels like cheating, even though it's a perfectly good way to keep a story moving onwards.
In the past, I used to edit as I went. I'd write three pages, then go back and draft them before moving onto another three... and so on. The result of this was that I hardly ever finished anything, because I was too busy going back and perfecting the prologue or the third chapter. And they were really well-constructed, too - it was just a shame they never led to anything.
Last year, for the first time, I forced myself to write without stopping to edit and what do you know? I actually managed to finish an entire novel. Of course, reading back over it, I've realised I have to cut the entire first section - some forty thousand words or so - but I'm not that bothered by it because I wasn't really fond of it in the first place. But if I'd been writing it in my old way and hopping back to edit and re-edit, I'd probably still be stuck in the middle of an introductory section that I didn't like very much.
Flit, I have to admit, I share your fondness for working on multiple stories. It's too easy to get bored with one story and instead of giving up writing for day, it's much better to be able t open up another story and do some work on that. At the moment, I'm:re-reading Black Fiddleworking on a fifth draft of a scriptconstructing the first draft of a new scriptplotting a fantasy/horror story for a competition, and, thinking of getting back to the first draft of The CityIt keeps everything nice and interesting!
When I was studying my totally useless Arts/Professional Writing degree at Uni, I managed to convince myself I was useless at dialogue. That changed when I read over an old story I wrote in primary school and realised my dialogue was actually quite good. Ever since, I've had more trouble with breaking up dialogue with description than with the dialogue itself. So I had to consciously insert description in between lines of dialogue or sections of stories can end up reading more like scripts.
I used to believe it was impossible to write a story and already know the ending. I never knew the endings of my stories, beyond "they win in the end" or "the ghost is banished in the end". Strangely enough, many of these stories never actually ended. These days, I like to know a bit more about the ending before I actually start - and it makes it a hell of a lot easier to write the story in the first place. If I know where I'm going, it's much easier to head the story in the right direction.
Well, I think I'll stop rambling now. I didn't mean to go on for so long and now I think I need a nice hot milo to get my strength back...
So, who's next? [img]http://s4.images.proboards.com/grin.gif" alt=";D" border="0"/>
Keeper of the Sherbet Lemons
19 years ago
Keeper of the Sherbet Lemons
Guildmember
Quote:Fan fiction for your own stories! I love it! I'd love to see one of your finished books - I think it would be a lot of fun to read. We'd get to the middle of a section and there'd be a little note saying: To read more of this apparently irrelevant character's life, please turn to appendix B. What fun![/quote]
But it's soo true, It's like i've gone Tolkien or something.... the appendix is going to be bigger than the book.... [img]http://s4.images.proboards.com/tongue.gif" alt=":P" border="0"/> I just can't help myself!! Two of the characters i wrote stories about have a total of... one, maybe two paragraphs in the other books! My fav character out of the entire series Has one line in the main books and a mention later on. That's it. *shakes head* I am soo useless...
But as for the ending, it's always funny with me, i always know the ending, and it never changes. So i'll have the last.... five thou, sometimes more, of the ending written before i've even worked out where exactely the character is going to go... it's weird.. but then again, i never admitted to being normal!!
No, it's good to know the ending. Apparently, Terry Pratchett always writes out a brief draft of his final scene before he begins writing anything else, so he knows where he's headed. So you're in the company of greats! [img]http://s4.images.proboards.com/cheesy.gif" alt=":D" border="0"/>
Lets see, how do I write? In a red bean bag on my bedroom floor. [img]http://s4.images.proboards.com/tongue.gif" alt=":P" border="0"/>
Ok, seriously, I'm a linear-plan-all-the-details-out person. I have note books everywhere with chapter summaries, notes on characters, and tonnes of other *hopefully* useful information. I usually know how the story ends, but not always how I get to the ending. I like to leave myself with bits and pieces to discover as I write. It makes for more fun, not to know all of the details straight away.
I too can work on multipul pieces at once. Right now, I've got *counts on fingers* 3 different stories. One is my novel 'Trinity', and the other two are fanfics which I write to keep myself motivted. I found that writing fanfics, which I don't really take that seriously, has really helped with my novel. They keep me writing, and allow me to develop certain techniques which I can later use in my novel.
I don't normally write back stories for my characters. When I'm planning stories out, I usually write down the main points about my characters, like family and physical descriptions, but that's about it. Everything else stays in my head. Its kind of a pain when I need to quickly referance something, but I've just never gone into that much detail on paper. Dunno why, but that's just me.
Anyway, there's my ramble.
Keeper of the Sherbet Lemons
19 years ago
Keeper of the Sherbet Lemons
Guildmember
I like plan all writers, you can always count on them to know what is going on [img]http://s4.images.proboards.com/tongue.gif" alt=":P" border="0"/> Unlike us chaos writers which never know which way they are coming. One of these days i'll need to become more structured if i ever want to get anything done [img]http://s4.images.proboards.com/tongue.gif" alt=":P" border="0"/> Nah.. that'll mean organisation.... [img]http://s4.images.proboards.com/cheesy.gif" alt=":D" border="0"/>
And as for active stories, i'll trump the lot of you i have..... 15 stories i'm working on at the moment..... and that's just a rough approximation, i don't have my Alex here to tell me.... I really need to get an internet connection on my Alex...
did you just say 'organisation'?!
*breaks down crying*
She said the 'O' word!!! * points accusingly*
I live in organised chaos. Its a nice balance between the two. [img]http://s4.images.proboards.com/grin.gif" alt=";D" border="0"/> *Looks around at easter show showbags (mmm, chips), note books, random pieces of paper, lollies, books, dvds, computer bag, internet phone cable........* Ahhh, my sweet mess! [img]http://s4.images.proboards.com/grin.gif" alt=";D" border="0"/> And yet I know exactly where everything is.
Flit, if being all over the place works, then go with it! Who said that you need to be organised to be successful, anyway? [img]http://s4.images.proboards.com/wink.gif" alt=";)" border="0"/>
Keeper of the Sherbet Lemons
18 years ago
Keeper of the Sherbet Lemons
Guildmember
got a new thing of interest, does anybody else go really weird when they're really into writing a story?
I have recently put my foot down, and forced myself to stop straying from one story to the next, and actually place my focus into finishing one of the ones i've been nursing for a while. But now ihave done that, surrounding myself purely in one world, i have gone a bit strange.
For starters, i'm getting worse at focusing on anything else. I watched a movie today, which i can't tell you anything about. i stared at it blankly for the full 2 hours and was surprised when i saw the credits.
I feel like i have this permanent heavy semicircle under my eyes, and i feel really phased out. I can't even seem to stay on the one thing for long. that two hour movie was the longest. Nothing else seemed to work. Except solitare. I have played far too much solitare on the computer.
Conversations aren't working that well anymore. I just can't concentrate on them. I'm having to get people to say things to me over and over again before they give up in frustration.
I went shopping the other day, and spent a long time walking aimlessly about, not even really sure why i was there, and went home with nothing.
But at least i'm getting some of my story done. 5 thousand words today.
And it's all i can think about...
anyone else get like this, or is it my only bizarre self?
I don't know if my writing style is weird or not...it comes in fits and spurts. For a couple of years there I wrote loads - had about 10 stories on the go and also wrote fanfic (well, the whiteface, which I consider a bit of an epic, size-wise), stories for the writing comps, etc. Then I'll have a dry patch. It's almost like I burn myself out creatively, and need to recuperate for a year or so. All that can come out during those periods are fanfics - but one shots, like the Server of Ober and the Roy & HG fiasco.
If I was to ever be published (heaven forbid) I'd be a terribly annoying author, because I rarely stick to deadlines and have an index of about 30 stories almost all in need of massive repair - some just outlines, some a chapter or two, and a couple, considerably close to their end. I think it's a gemini thing, in that I can't ever truly finish anything...and my worst enemy is editing. I get stuck in edit mode, and convince myself that I can't go on with the story until I've gotten the first bit of it perfect [img]http://s4.images.proboards.com/tongue.gif" alt=":P" border="0"/>
Flit in regards to your last post though, I'm the same - if I want to write, nothing but writing can keep me focussed. It's bothersome really, when I should be working, or should have been studying in the past. I'll do everything half-assed and hurry home to my computer, then type like mad until the sun comes up. Uni was a massive waste of time in one regard, but it was the most productive time of my life. When I was in Scotland, rather than spend days and nights in pubs with people from the hostel, I'd gather my tattered notebook, push on to the library and sit there for hours upon hours, writing of all things, the Whiteface - it just HAD to come out, and there was nothing I could do to stop it. When the library was closed on weekends, I'd hurry off to a park or climb Arthur's Seat if the weather was fine, and write there. It was crazy.
Like I said, fits and spurts. And I can feel that edginess coming on again...if I disappear for a couple of months, you'll know what's happened [img]http://s4.images.proboards.com/tongue.gif" alt=":P" border="0"/>
How do I write?
Well,I normally write about sorcerers,and stuff like that.
But recently I just finished writing 'The feelings trilogy'.That trilogy was the most different genre I've ever written about before.It tooks me about a amonth,but it needs editing.I haven't gotton round to it yet bevause I've been writing poetry for all these poetry competitions lately.
I wrote 'Red Ice' last year.I done so many drafts,changing the story over and over agin,re-writing it again and again.After a teacher read it ,I re - wrote it again.I haven't been back to it in a while - but It still needs to be edited again.I can never get a story perfect,It sucks.It is my best story yet,but it's not the best I can write - I know that.
*frowns* Now I've mentioned them I have to go and edit them again.Damm!!
Keeper of the Sherbet Lemons
18 years ago
Keeper of the Sherbet Lemons
Guildmember
Kaylan, it's not what you're writing about which is the main object of this thread (heaven knows there are plenty of other threads for that kind of nattering, which is welcomed! trust me, is very welcomed!) but this thread is about how you write. Have a read of the others posts above and see how Megana, Min, Buneater and I approach writing, and tell us how you do it. Do you write in a linear fashion (from beginning to end) do you have a scattered approach? Do you spend more time on character development, or like to delve right into conflict? I'd really like your thoughts (and anyone elses) on this. It would be interesting
Min=>I understand that totally! I get itchy palms, it's really bizarre, but my palms get so itchy when i want to write, but can't think of anything to write about. And i've gone burko over fan fic too. I've written quite a few 50thou fanfics that will never ever see the light of day, and yet can't put as much dicipline into writing my own stuff. But i can't say it's all bad, most of my learning process about writing comes from writing fanfic...
How did I miss this thread???
*beats self over head*
Ow!!!
I write many many stories at once!!! I plan, I write and all at the same time. And Flit, dear, I write fanfiction for my own stories too. Just not to quite the same extent!!!
*pats Flit* There there... The Plot Fairies will leave you alone one day, no doubt.
I'm a very muddled up confuzzled writer. I usually start at the beginning, then do all the bits that make sense. If an idea hits me I'll go and write a bit from later on. Then I'll go back and link things and make it coherent. I'm writing all 6 books of Questers at the same time, just writing whichever part I see fit. I redraft a lot too (although not every 3 pages, Bunne dear!!!). The first book of Questers is about 45 000 words, and not even a third finished, but it's the fourth draft of those 45 000 words!!! I guess because I write so slowly (possibly because I work on so many things at once) and I'm still maturing rapidly as a writer it NEEDS to be edited. What I mean is, I started Questers when I was 13. That's *counts on fingers* six years ago, and I've changed my style and become a better writer since then. So at 14 I probably read my 13 year old stuff and went "eew! I was so BAD" and rewrote. Then at 16 I would have redone it again. And again at 18, which is the version I have now. See? Makes perfect sense, and I imagine the stuff I wrote at 13 is unrecognisable (except the first sentence).
About the first sentence. I have NEVER changed a first sentence. I think this is because I can't start until my first sentence is perfect. If I'm not happy with that opening, that very first line, then I can't even write the second. So I always get that first sentence (and usually the first paragraph) exactly right for the story before I even think about going on. I may go on and edit and change and write ahead and go completely beserk afterwards, but everything I write starts with that very first sentence. Got to get that first paragraph looking spiffy!
I write multiple stories at once, too!!! Not counting the stuff I've totally given up on I've got *counts on fingers again* 19 unfinished novels/novellas. And they will ALL one day be finished, I swear!!! Chiefly, however, I'm working on 6 at the same time (that's if you count the 6 Questers as one novel, and I doubt even Tolkien would try that on...)
Unfortunately, I'm plauged by writers block a lot, but at least if I get a block on one thing I can write another instead.
Oh, and about my dreams.
I dream plot. All the time. I barely dream anything except plot for stories. Last night, for example, I had two dreams. The first featured my Story about Stories, and was a little piece of the love story. The other was a conversation between Governor Egis and Kate, from the Life or Freedom project! The night before that, I had another LorF dream, in which Andy and Kate blew up a building.
All my dreams are plot. Sometimes I dream the same stuff over and over and over. Sometimes I dream about stories I'm working on, other times, I invent whole new stories on my sleep. In fact, I'm working on a collection called "Stuff I dreamt", and all of them are based on dreams I had. One story I invented the character in my sleep. She was there, fully formed, in a dream. In another, I dreamt the whole story itself, like a serial, over many many nights. That was so cool!!! I've got two stories based on the same image of a man and a woman that I dreamt up. Two VERY different stories.
Dreams are awesome!!!
Well... that's quite enough ramblings from me!!!
[img]http://s4.images.proboards.com/smiley.gif" alt=":)" border="0"/>
KSL
Keeper of the Sherbet Lemons
18 years ago
Keeper of the Sherbet Lemons
Guildmember
But i LIKE the plot fairies! It only ever seems to irritate you that i keep writing bloody epic side/back/randomly connected stories... [img]http://s4.images.proboards.com/tongue.gif" alt=":P" border="0"/> Okay, it irritates me a little, but if i had never done that, i would never have gotten to know Vincent, Michael, Andre, and Anna, and they are four of my fav characters, so you can't fault me entirely.... And i have almost finished one of the main stories (the first one) which is oddly surprising, all going good it should be done by the end of the holidays. I am fully intending on not spending a cent these holidays and staying boxed up at home writing.... best saving technique, me thinks... unless it causes me to go stir crazy and then have a huge spending binge... argh this capitalist society that forces me to spend spend spend..... but i really need those jumpers... *sigh*
going to stop my ramble here.... with another note, tho, just started another Hadan, so i believe that brings that story clump up to.... 17 is it now? I couldn't help myself, i had a dream of it last night, and it hasn't solved any of my plot issues whatsoever, but it does tell me what happens to one of the characters after her story finishes....
I know i know... *decides it might be time to look for plot fairy repellent spray....*
Good lord, I don't know how you people stay sane!
One story at a time for me, and I write it from start to finish. Occassionally I go back and write an earlier chapter (like on the last story where I created a whole new charcter and had to go an put him back in), or I write one ahead, but I stay mostly linear. Flit also finds me somewhat frustrating cos I refuse to plan and then forget about stuff [img]http://s4.images.proboards.com/wink.gif" alt=";)" border="0"/>.
I sympathise with the forgetting about stuff. Unless I write it down, then I forget things entirely. And I don't always find it easy to plan ahead, apart from in very general terms. ie. they will win, or, they'll find the doughnut under the couch but it's so covered in mould that they can't actually eat it after all... I keep coming up with brilliant ideas for stories and thinking "I should write that down" but I don't and these fantastic ideas are lost forever. [img]http://s4.images.proboards.com/cheesy.gif" alt=":D" border="0"/>
Keeper of the Sherbet Lemons
18 years ago
Keeper of the Sherbet Lemons
Guildmember
ever heard of the trust thing known as a notebook good Bun? [img]http://s4.images.proboards.com/tongue.gif" alt=":P" border="0"/> I keep one with me at all time, i have hundreds of little A5 notebooks crammed with story/movie/docco ideas. I will also admit that i am addicted to the stationary aisle and buy A5 books when i'm feeling down... so i have a whole ton with only one page/line/word in them.... but still, it helps. Whenever i need something to write about, simply to keep myself occupied, i dig through these books.... they're great... [img]http://s4.images.proboards.com/grin.gif" alt=";D" border="0"/> I have been known to plan stories extensivly in these things, and then forget about the story all together... then i'll stumble across them in a few years and think "Hey, that was a cool idea" and rework it.... That's what my one i've dubbed "Choices" is all about. It started out as a horror story when i developed the idea in year 9, it's moved onto a gothic story in year 11, and now it's a full blown gothic satire.... all surrounding beer.... I love those little books of mine, if anything else, they keep me entertained on a sleepless night..... [img]http://s4.images.proboards.com/tongue.gif" alt=":P" border="0"/>
And they keep me entertained on an OCD cleaning frenzy!!! LOL
Jun 21, 2005, 6:18pm[/url], Frozen Turkey[/url] wrote:Good lord, I don't know how you people stay sane!
One story at a time for me, and I write it from start to finish. Occassionally I go back and write an earlier chapter (like on the last story where I created a whole new charcter and had to go an put him back in), or I write one ahead, but I stay mostly linear. Flit also finds me somewhat frustrating cos I refuse to plan and then forget about stuff [img]http://s4.images.proboards.com/wink.gif" alt=";)" border="0"/>. [/quote]
well, at the moment i'm writing 4 stories at once... its probably why people keep complaining i'm taking too long on some of them...
Keeper of the Sherbet Lemons
18 years ago
Keeper of the Sherbet Lemons
Guildmember
Ah, take as long as you want writing them. That's why i stopped letting people read my unfinished work a while back, they were always like "So, where's the next bit" and i might have lost faith in writing that piece, so i never did an ending. There was this one time this piece i was writing bassically went throughout the entire school. I just let a few chapters out, and before i know it, they were being passed around to everyone, and i really didn't want that to happen. Was so p!ssed at the girl who let them go, when i told her not to. Well, i got them all back with constructive critisim, which was good, but what ended up happening was i got bored with writing it. The comments people had made made me realise i was writing a predictable story, and it wasn't what i wanted. that, and a few of the characters really started to irritate me. So i stopped. I shelved it. Next think i knew, i had half my year, and the year above, demanding to know where the rest of the story went. So i had to give them brief summeries as to what happened to everyone. After that, i just could not let unfinished work go. I didn't want to be in that situation again.
Still angry with that girl. GAH
Yups I understand babe. Must be finished before it can be read.
If only for the reason that often the story changes as you write it. Sometimes you need to edit!!!
this thread is so great!
I have to say that I'm a bit of a combination of methods when I write. I plan out a HUGE amount of detail before I start. I guess you could say that I plan my worlds from the ground up.
I construct a map that is geographically correct. By that I mean I have a believable terrain. I don't just plonk a desert into the middle of the land cos it would look good. The terrain will determine the types of settlement/ industries nearby.
I place my towns and cities in areas of strategic importance as well. Then i tinker with the economy, what kind of money do they use? How much is a horse worth?
I set out a class structure. Have a think about religion(s) and the governing system. Personally I like empires that are at the point of crumbling (like ancient Greece after the death of Alexander) hehehe
I find that all of this research helps me to constuct a world that lives and breathes. It's always these little details that help your novel or story along.
I also write massive amounts of background for my characters that doesn't actually make it into the final draft. but it helps me to understand them as people and determine how they would react in certain situations.
I don't plan my plot out though (I've tried and failed miserably) I tend to write out little scenes that I've thought of or dreamed about and then try to think of how they can be strung together into a story. Surprisingly this sometimes works well [img]http://s4.images.proboards.com/grin.gif" alt=";D" border="0"/>
I am not especially neat as I like to write longhand on bits of paper or spiral notepads. I try to keep a system going. It's amusing cos i often work on several stories at once and the piles can get confused. I can't tell you the amount of times I've had to dig through oceans of paaper trying to find that little bit of information I wrote down months ago.
It's so great to see how other people do it and know I'm not alone in the madness
I still have the writers block and haven't been back to my book. I wrote one line, and then had to stop.
I hate when your mind works like that, It's like it's telling you that your idea's are crap and that you should think of better ones.
I'm writing about a fallen angel who murdered all these innocent people, and I'm up to the part where Benji (the fallen angel's brother) goes with his friends to the heavens to go to his brothers' trial.
I don't know how to end it !!!!!!!!
Jun 27, 2005, 7:20pm[/url], Snow Walker Kay[/url] wrote:
I'm writing about a fallen angel who murdered all these innocent people, and I'm up to the part where Benji (the fallen angel's brother) goes with his friends to the heavens to go to his brothers' trial.
I don't know how to end it !!!!!!!! [/quote]
Ooooh Biblicalesque!! A bit like the fall of Lucifer then?
Do you mean you don't know how to end the trial?
I'll *throw* an idea at you!
why not rework a similar biblical story of killing innocents and then being punished.
Cain and Abel (Genesis 4:1-16)
Cain and Abel were brothers, but Cain got so jealous that he killed Abel in a fit of rage. God got p!ssed and cursed Cain to forever wander the Earth and never recieve any of it's bounty (harsh!) he also gave him the 'mark of Cain' so that all who came across him would know him and know not to kill him because God reserved that right.
have Benji's bro banished to Earth to become as a mortal forever wandering/trying to atone and have Benji and friends accompany him to try and save his soul/find redemption.