I agree about using the same word too often. The thesaurus is your friend!!
At the same time, though it is annoying to have character names repeated, I hate when you're reading and characters are refered to as 'the older man' or 'the shirling' or 'the _____' more often than they are referred to by their name. It makes thigs wordy, and sometimes isn't as clear as the author seems to think. Terry Brooks, in the Sword of Shannara, is really bad for this: two of the characters are brothers and they are almost always referred to as 'the younger shireling' and 'the older shireling' (I don't think the word was shireling but I can't remember what it was. It gets my point across, I hope).
It's even more annoying when they are simply referred to as either he or she, especially when there is a huge group of people and you just can;t work out which he/she the author is refering too . . . at least with 'the older man' etc. it's a little easier to distinguish which character is being refered to.
Oh, certainly I agree with that, Sionainn: if a mere pronoun isn't clear, substitute something else, just so long as the 'something else' really does clear it up, right? If the 'something else' can refer to more than one person, you might as well just use the person's name and be done with it.
I hate the phrase "dot your 'i's and cross your 't's."
Fortunately, I haven't seen it much in actual writing, but I hear it all the time and I hate it.
Especially since it doesn't really apply anymore since the things it would refer to are all typed up on a computer, which does that all automatically. I agree. It's a silly saying.
Ashling Guildmistress
14 years ago
Mon Aug 17 2009, 09:23pm
Ashling Guildmistress
Mage
Lol perhaps the new phrase would be something like 'ensure capital letters and less exclamation marks is more'
^.^;;; sooo random contribution from your Board guardian :P Still interesting thread idea :)
[act]sniffles[/act] sometimes I miss written word.
with the turn on your heel thing (from ages ago) its kind of a quick spin, what you do is put one foot up half way (heel touching ground) and the other with just the toe touching the ground and spin 90 degrees or more. it is also piveting (sp?)
hope that helps
with calling people he/she when there is alot of people * |:| promise i don't do it.*
its hard when you don't want to call somene their name and there is another person in there. like i want noone to no the person's name until it is said but someone else comes in and their name also needed later.
the saying "i before e except after c" buggs me. i mean the street i live on is an exception (woodleigh)
hmmmm, thats all at the moment
o_O And you are not using written word? :P No wait! it's heiroglyphics! that's why I understand ;P
Yes, the i before e thing only annoyed me until I learned the second half of the rule (which I was told was 'i before e except after c, except when it's eh as in eight). The whole of the rule accounts for most of the exceptions.
As for the 'dear' thing, I hate that, too, but I love it for writing dialogue for older characters, lol.
Mystic Ward
14 years ago
Mystic Ward
Twentyfamilies Gypsy
Dear and Love, two of my pet hates. I have so many older rellies and friends you'd think I'd be used to it by now and its really scary when I actually start calling people those names myself. Not that I do it very often, thank Lud.
you say "wood - lee" no 'a' sound in that.
its a total exception.
dear/love/dears is annoying but thankfully no one calls me that. all though i do live the word "Whipersnapper" he he he ;D -its a long story. ::)
altough dears make me think of a really old crumbly looking granny luring children into her house. but that might just be me ;D
The title that makes me go :-? is Love. HOw on earth can you call another person love, when love is a verb? Besides, I feel icky when I hear it. No wait, I get more icky when I hear someone call their partner "my love". WHy can't they just say Darling? or Babe? My love is just weird and it freaks me out.
lol, my three best friends always call me/each other 'luv' or 'hon'. 'Luv' is usually only for when you've said something stupid and they're correcting you. ;P 'Hon' is for every occasion.
I even caught myself calling people 'hon' the other day, and then I stopped myself. :P
Plus there was a phase where one of my friends insisted that we all have nicknames after some sort of dessert. I think I was 'cupcake'. :P lol ).( And now she keeps calling me Mona Lisa for some reason... [act]shakes head[/act]
You know what I really don't like? Possum. And Angel. And Sweety. Mainly because my mum calls me those things when she's trying to be all maternal (which, thankfully, doesn't happen all that often). [act]shudder[/act] It makes me feel like I'm 4 years old... or like I'm being smothered. :P
And you know what's the worst? Sweety-pie or Sweet-pea. XP_b
Anyway, I think I got off topic a bit there...
I really don't like it in novels when the author introuces a character's appearance by having them look in the mirror and describing what they see. It's just so cliche.
YES THAT!!! Avialle I so agree it is the uttermost unbelievable thing ever especially when it's in first person perspective and the character gies about to describe themselves. People don't do that when they look in the mirror . . . they go 'oh lud my hair is horrible today' or 'what? is that a zit??' etc, not 'I have light brown eyes and a scatter of freckles across my nose, blah, blah, blah'
I've noticed IC does this with Elspeth after she gets astounded at how pretty she looks after she gets shoved into a dress in the Druid's Camp which made it even more annoying in my opinion. Bleh . . . Girls don't need dresses to be pretty thank you very much :P
Girls don't have to be in a dress to be pretty but sometimes they do need reassurance that they are pretty. Besides that's one of the hard parts about people using first person in a story because the other alternative is to have another character come up and describe them but that would just be plain odd.
I learnt the 'i' before 'e' rule as
'i' before 'e' except after 'c' and when sounding like 'a' as in neighbor and weigh. Then there is an alternate version I saw a comedian use
'i' before 'e' except after 'c' and when sounding like 'a' as in neighbor and weigh and on weekends and holidays and all throughout May and you will always be wrong no matter what you say - I think that sounds about right!
Well generally I just don't really like it when characters are described in detail, which tends to be the case with the mirror method. I like getting hints of what a characters appearence is and then develop the rest myself. More fun that way but some people like good detailed descriptions so [act]shrugs[/act]
Yes, the issue of self-description in first-person narratives is difficult to navigate. A character just happening to pass a mirror (or window or lake or conveniently clear puddle :P) and muse on their looks in detail, as if they've never noticed them before, is definitely a cliche, but, as Silver Wind mentioned, there aren't that many other options if the author wants to convey any sense of their character's appearance. It makes me wince a bit, but I ignore it as much as I can, and I do think it's acceptable under certain circumstances.
This is from a while ago, but I wanted to add my two cents (oops! Not a phrase that irks anyone, I hope? ;)) about the whole "said" issue. Like Sian, I was taught in school to avoid it, but, since then, I've heard rants about that being a misconception. It's so ingrained into me, though, that I still twitch a bit whenever I see "said" used more than I think it should be! Generally, I take a middle ground. I think it's an acceptable word, but I also think it makes for awkward writing to use nothing but said, said, said. We have so many words (asked, murmured, observed, laughed, muttered, cried, sighed, growled, demanded, and so on) that can clarify just how the thing was said without needing to add any adjectives - why not use them?
For example, it drives me mad when an author follows dialogue with s/he said with a smile. Why not just s/he smiled? It means exactly the same thing, and it's for just such occasions that "smile" was allowed to be used as a verb, so why make the sentence longer than it needs to be? [/rant]
With regard to describing characters through mirrors... I think there are some occasions when it works, but not as a detailed description: I think there was a point in one of the Lioness books by Tamora Pierce when Alanna finds out the guy she likes might be attracted to some delicate blonde beauty and she looks in a mirror, noting all of her own less-than-delicate features, like her tan and her rough un-moisturized skin and her un-powdered hair, and this works because those are the sorts of things you do notice in such situations. But as a general way to introduce the desciption of a character... I agree, it's been done to death.
And don't worry about bringing up older discussions, Firefall. I, for one, like to read other people's opinions about such things :D
with the mirror thing i think its okay when they say something along the lines of :
as i trotted after him a caught a quick view of my reflection, i had never relised how pale/big my eyes/messy my hair/ etc was.
with being called my love i was reading a book and its about witch craft and stuff and theres this thing which just means true love and the main character (Morgan) and her boyfriend (Hunter) are always calling each other love or my love. Hunter more than more Morgan, hes always like "love, whats wrong." or "Love i'm sorry" or "Yes, love."
yes love no love three bags full love! ARGH! call her Morgan! she has a name.!!!
you know what also annoys me, is when people say i didn't do nothing.
two negatives people!!!! it means you did do something!
I am slightly ashamed to admit that I LOVE speaking with double negatives. Oh the redundency! Makes people stop for a second to work out what exactly I'm saying ;) I think it's a good way to ensure people are listening :nod: though the whole 'I didn't do nothing' one has sneaked into common language as meaning the opposite to what it implies which make no sense but that's crazy phrases for you I guess. [act]shrugs[/act]
Wanderer Guilden
14 years ago
Wanderer Guilden
Mage
oooh! i (L) double negatives too!! how do you think the EEP's came about? ;P i just knock out the thrid 'evil' and vola! you get an instant headache for anyone not as insane as i am! ;D
Double negatives are fun when used correctly and purposely, but it buggs me when the person speaking clearly means the opposite, as with the 'didn't do nothing' thing. I can't stand Hillary Duff's "Getaway" Song for that very reason: "should-a seen it coming but I couldn't do nothing...' ::)
Songs are really bad for mixing up you and me/you and I; they'll sacrifice grammar for the sake of rhyme and it drives me crazy!!! No wonder most people don't know the differnece between those two.
i think using double negatives is great fun because you confuse people but my friends are like 'thats wrong grammar" or whatever they say . that annoys me so i do it back twice as bad.
with songs i don't actually listen close enough to the lyricks unless i love the song and even then i still have no idea what half the words are. ;D