11 years ago
Fri Jan 04 2013, 04:00pm
Okay I'm slightly confused. I'm re-reading The Stone Key, and constantly when it is raining, Elspeth says that she can't farseek because the rain prevents them from doing so. And yet I strongly remember them being able to do so in all the other books. I swear in the rebellion they were being chased by the soldierguards to Malik's trap, and it was raining, and yet they were using their powers.
I kinda get the logic behind their farseeking not working (I thought it used to be only reduced, or it limited in the rain) because the rain probably contains taint, since the air would have had a lot of radioactive ash and things put into it during the Great White. But I swear this wasn't always the case.
Am I mistaken? Or has this just suddenly changed? Also please note I haven't read The Sending, so if you are going to quote something/mention/talk about/reference it, please put it in spoilers, and alert me to that fact! Thanks!
I know that at times they couldn't Farseek at all during the rain and other times it just inhibits it. Since it's been a while since the Great White, I would imagine that the taint is different degrees of strength at different times. What page number did you read that on? What book edition?
Well all throughout The Stone Key, Elspeth says that she can't farseek. She does it in Saithwood, and again in the Compound just as they were about to try to take the armoury. And to me it sounded like they couldn't farseek in any rain, even though I swear they could earlier.
Page 436 of the Penguin edition of The Stone Key is where Elspeth is dismayed about the rain.
Ashlings' guildleader
11 years ago
Fri Jan 04 2013, 07:53pm
Ashlings' guildleader
Dreamscape Artist
Also, I think it effects different talents differently. For example, farseeking is the most easily affected, then coercing, then Elspeth's dark power. I think Elspeth's used her coercive power to bolster her farseeking probe and cut through rain on a couple of occasions.
While they were riding from the soldierguards through the rain in TKP, Elspeth used her powers on a soldierguard, but she used her dark power and I think that might have been to cut through the rain.
The way I always like to imagine it is, basically envision the farseeking probes as being physical in a sense, and then send them out into the rain. There isn't going to be much substance to a farseeking probe so it'd get bounced around a bit if some raindrops hit it--the more rain the more likely its going to get knocked down until such a point that it can't get anywhere.
Coercive probes manage to last a bit longer because I also imagine their is more speed to them per-se and usually their targets are closer so they are able to handle a bit more rain than farseeking probes which bound along all 'tra-la-la-la' like.
Anyway, it's kinda silly but that's how I see it. :P
I think her Dark Power is basically the exception for everything. Like in The Farseekers, she chose to use it my touching the watchman in Henry Druids camp, but I'm sure she could have done the same thing she did in TKP if she would have thought of it. In both cases, she almost killed both men and honestly, we don't know their condition afterwards, if maybe they did die.
I guess that's not true because in TKP Maruman only says that the red she see's in her spirit is from the life she took and not lives, but again that is before the second attack.
Thanks for the clarification, it certainly makes sense now. Your explanation Shonk is brilliant!
For some reason I still get the feeling that in TSK Elspeth sounds more dejected about the rain, and that it means she definitely can't farseek. Because in the passages you chose Arwen, it sounds like, it just impacts on it, and makes it more difficult (ie shortens their range and strength). But I still think that in TSK she is saying that it is just plain impossible. I think maybe IC wanted to make things a tad more definite (after all she had 9 years to decide the minutae of the mythology).
Thanks everyone though!
I seem to remember the first mention of rain inhibiting powers being in Farseekers, but I also think there was a passage somewhere in one of the post-plague books that mentioned farseeking in the rain had been harder since the plagues. I will have to dig out my books at to see if I can find whatever passage it was that made me think that.
I do agree that coercive probes seem to be 'bigger' and heavier since they can cause pain!
Above I said that on page 436 of TSK mentions it, plus 458 has a mention again. Though now I am starting to think about it, I think Elspeth says that she can't contact anyone in the rain, and she means that since they are far away she can't contact them, if they were closer, then maybe it would be possible.
It does actually say on page 113 it says '(Elspeth was) aware that rain would render me unable to coerce anyone without physical contact'. So it seems that coercion is impossible in the rain, and that farseeking is very limited. So maybe the idea that coercive probes are larger is true, but they can't bound through like we thought.
My interpretation is that, similar to the different effect on different Talents, the limiting effect of the rain depends on what farseeking you are trying to do. To use a slight variationon Shonk's analogy, I imagine the probes as being sort of strands of thought twisted and woven together. The more complex the task you are trying to complete, the more complex and fragile the probe/weaving and the easier it is disrupted. this would also be why greater skill/strength lessens the disrution. I haven't checked how well this theory correlates to examples from the books, but it seems to fit with what I remember.
Okay so I found a new little snippet of information on this subject. In Wavesong (U.S.) or TSK it says, "It was a gray day with low dark clouds, and feeling a spit of moisure, I glanced at the sky apprehensively, aware that rain would render me unable to coerce anyone without physical contact." - Wavesong, pg.106 chapter 6
Well having finished the Sending I have something to add to this.
I find it very interesting that Dameon is able to use empathy in water, and in fact it amplifies it. Just as if Empathy is the complete opposite of the other abilities. It actually helps, not impedes. I guess maybe empathy in my mind is more fluid in itself, so having water doesn't really stop it, and maybe it is partially like vibrations in the air, so in water they are stronger.
Plus, even more interestingly is the fact that The Red Queen (Dragon's mother) was able to farseek and beastspeak whilst in the water, she seemed to have no issue. And I think that Elspeth pointed out that she (TRQ) was the only person Elspeth knew who could do this. So that either means it some sort of slight error, or for some reason TRQ is special.
I think that The Red Queen did have special abilities. Also, the empaths were also able to feel emotions off of Maliks men during The Keeping Place when they betrayed them.
11 years ago
Thu May 16 2013, 05:59pm
My interpretation with the rain partially blocking talents was that it is because the rain still contains trace amounts of taint.
Also, the ability to beast-farspeek through water is not unique to the Red Queens (although I think there was mention that it is one of their defining traits) - Elspeth manages to call the dolphins.
I agree that empathy seems to work differently as a talent, seeimingly at a more instictive level for both Misfit and subject. It is not blocked by the demon bands and I seem to remember Elspeth needing to create a new type of shield when she first meets Dameon in Obernewtyn. It makes sense that rain would affect it differently.
I was just thinking, what if there are different types of rain? 'Normal rain' and 'tainted rain'. Perhaps farseeking abilities don't work in tainted rain? Or, when it is raining over tainted land? I think coercian would be possible in the rain because it's a more manipulative talent than farseeking.
