I think the series is starting to hit its stride. I still don't think it's Joss's best work (perhaps because all the episodes have been written by other writers, perhaps because the concept means that the show can't rely on stable characters for us to identify with) but I think it's improving every week.
Same. I'm really hanging out for the next episode each week now :) it pulls of the best twists. And I'm intrigued by how much the dolls actually remember - all the little things, like Echo shaking her head at Sierra quickly at the end of one of the episodes, and Echo 'seeing perfectly' at the end of this week's (while glaring at the guard). Lots to enjoy :)
15 years ago
Wed Mar 25 2009, 07:47am
[act] throws *dpm* a lifejacket and saves thread[/act]
Anyone still watching? :)
I'm loving it now. The on-going story arc has completely hooked me.
I knew Melly was one of them! I cheered out loud when there was a green flower in the vase :P and, was it just me, or was that a very "This is laughter for chickens" moment :P
But there's still so many questions; who is on the inside, tampering with the imprints (putting that message in Echo)? Their doctor, perhaps? She always looks sad/like she's up to something :P
Is Ballard really Alpha or what? Did they perhaps, combat his nature/reaction by imprinting him with an FBI agent's mind, and making him inherently suspicious of the Dollhouse in case he remembered anything? Why wouldn't DeWitt do away with the guy otherwise?
I'm still watching it and loving it! Loving the mystery! I'm totally hooked!!
And I KNEW there was something up with Melly. I couldn't see the relevance of having her as a character in the series. She was just so sad, looking yearningly at the FIB agent! And it was an air punch when the poem came out! It was sooo good how she switched from ninja mode, then the next line read aloud and she collapsed into Melly! Ohh good story line. Though I was afraid for a moment that the ex-Handler was going to kill her!!
Ohh and that ex-Handler... I was like wow! But it emphasises just how vulnerable the Dolls are! I couldn't believe him. So wrong... it's like taking advantage of a child.
Oh, Min I think I agree with you about the scarred Doctor. She's a bit strange, not quite there and has this sort of disapproving quiet way about her. I did suspect that perhaps she is the insider!
I'm still getting used to names when you mentioned Ballard, I was like "huh??" It didn't really trigger anything in me that he might be Alpha. It doesn't seem to connect completely with me!
I look forward to Fridays - or Saturdays really. :P
Episode 6 was what convinced me to stick with the series. Up until that point, I'd been watching it out of a sense of duty to Joss, and while I could see that it was exploring some interesting ideas, I felt these ideas were being let down by the delivery. Up until Episode 6, I didn't really feel any investment in the characters, or in the Dollverse itself. The whole thing felt lacking in authenticity. But once I saw this episode, I saw how wrong I had been. Dollhouse is just as full of life, warmth and authenticity as every other Joss show. It just took a while to get going.
Ashling Guildmistress
15 years ago
Ashling Guildmistress
Mage
Hey all :D I've been watching this show as well - and loving it!
I'm quite picky when I watch TV shows :P and the only two tv shows that I've been committed to watch lately are Terminator and Dollhouse. Sadly, Terminator has taken a slightly weird turn for me - although the last ep I saw did pick up so [act]fingers crossed[/act]
I finished watching Ep 6 yesterday :D And I agree with the above :D Though, I never considered Ballard as ... what you considered him to be. I thought we had a glimpse of Alpha in the first ep in the living room when he was watching that recording of Caroline.
Personally, I thought that was awfully creepy, like this guy was getting a kick out of killing 'Echo's parents' (or whoever they were in possession of such a tape) and then sitting their naked in front of the TV screen watching that tape!
I'm about to watch Ep 7 :D
But I will say :P I liked the arc where you investigated this attraction Victor had for Ciera. I just love the dialogue as Toufer runs into the room:
Toufer: Doctor.
Doctor: Toufer?
Toufer: Hello.
Doctor: ... Hello.
Toufer: So listen, here's the thing: I was looking - glancing - I noticed... Victor.
Doctor: [act]rolls eyes[/act] You noticed Victor.
Toufer: Mmm hmmm. In the shower and he's... naked.
Doctor: Victor's naked in the shower?
Toufer: Right. And you know the rest :P
And the whole:
'Did you put it in one of those reports?
'Of course.'
'Well, okay - nobody reads those.'
I am loving how different this series is!! It's fantastic. Just watched episode 7:
And it just hit me, while reading MK's post:
Could her bf in the flashback scenes be Alpha? Considering that Dollhouse is known for taking people who find out about Rossum's research - we've seen Echo, this time it was Sam. It could very well work - and hence Alpha concentrating specifically on Echo - because he has memories of her as his girlfriend, Caroline?
But how funny was it when
everyone - handlers and the lady who's in charge, and Dominick - all went a bit loopy. It was funny. And it was interesting to see exactly how they would get out of the situation!
And then how the dolls starting have 'glitches' and remembering past engagements... and poor Ciera!
Although I was completely satisfied... how did they find the antidote?? I mean they worked it out, in that Sam was the one who got that grad student to kill himself with the drug by overdosing....
15 years ago
Wed Apr 01 2009, 07:43am
I think they worked out in the end that
the drug de-evolved over time and would wear off? That as it was de-evolving, the Dolls became effected by it and started seeing their own hidden memories? My god, Victor's memories - what, was he part of the Russian army or something? How did he get involved?! [act]wants to know more[/act] I got the impression from that episode that they found the Dolls at that college.
Also - I was glad to have one of the very first scenes in the show explained this ep. The one with DeWitt and 'Caroline', where they're doing a deal. I'd always thought that it was the very end we were seeing - that she'd figured it out, and 'remembered' or something. But now, it looks like that's how she got into the Dollhouse.
Alpha being the boyfriend - I think he is definitely dead. He died, Caroline was grief-ridden, and it's what pushed her over the edge and let the Dollhouse have her memories - because she was hurting too much, there was so much surface-grief and guilt, that despite her attitude to the industry she wanted to forget...
I'm so up for the ex-FBI agent still being Alpha, sorry XP I think that he has moments - where he reverts to Alpha-ish behaviour, and remembers Echo for real. How else did he get the envelope with the photograph of her? Didn't he just find it in an envelope on his desk? There's so much about Ballard that doesn't add up for me, and at least now he's off the case, he can start solving it for real :P
Yeah I think that
Dollhouse could easily cover it up that her boyfriend, Leo (I finally caught his name, I think!) did survive, and was perhaps forced to join Dollhouse? If they can make people like Caroline disappear off the face of the earth and no one really noticing, I'm sure they could take Leo and pretend he was dead, so they also score Caroline as a doll.
Also remember the British boss lady was saying something along the lines of Caroline making her pay for what she had done (punishing British lady).
And as for the ex-FBI agent being Alpha, it still doesn't sit well with me, being that, wouldn't Dollhouse KNOW he was Alpha - they do know what he looks like right? Or perhaps it's sort of like Melly's case; where they say how they have to get rid of the 'civilian' that the FBI agent told everything about Dollhouse
I don't know! The show definitely keeps us guessing anyway! And I'm still not able to catch all their names... I know Toufer, Dominick, Boyd and all the dolls' names... but what about the scarred doctor? The British lady? The FBI agent... is it just me missing the names??
Can't wait to see what happens next!
k... I just watched ep1 - I downloaded it a little while ago and hadn't had time to watch it. I'm not quite sure what to think though :-/ I wasn't exactly wowed - though I do like Eliza Dushku :)
I'd been waiting to read your thoughts on it Dolorosa till after I'd watched it - I must say, after reading your blog, the show makes alot more sense - initially I was worried it seemed like Tru Calling - or as you guys have said - those repetitive sorts of crime shows, but I'm sure it won't be.... (I hope :-/ )
(I PMSL @ Katia from Neighbours ;P so thats where she disappered to! ;)
since I have faith in you guys - and Joss - I shall go watch ep 2, and download the other eps :P
(sorry if this is repetitive - I havent read the posts regarding ep 2 and onwards yet ~:| )
15 years ago
Thu Apr 02 2009, 07:17pm
Eilidh I had much the same reaction as you initially! It gets so much better as the series progresses - really hooks you in!
You know you guys are right about Leo, the whole twist could be that even what Echo/Caroline thinks might be memories of her real past could well be implants. So, he could still be alive.
And...okay, I'm starting to see what you guys mean about Ballard/Alpha (I think I was just using my Destroyer Theory model on the series :P - someone who's been there all along/close to the action).
But - I think Adelle is the only one who initially knew that Alpha was still out there (Topher et al thought he was dead, and they still haven't made contact with him - not sure how much everyone else there knows...). And she seems to be...playing games. Rather than shoot first/ask questions later, she's more interested in strategic moves, placing people in particular places and seeing how they react.
Like placing Melly, I just don't get why she was there, if not to monitor Ballard. Sure, to keep tabs on exactly how much he knew, but it does feel like there's more to it. The fact that she could turn into River Tam with a word, and Adelle was the one giving the order...I dunno, it seems like overkill to program a doll to kill if there's no potential for danger - eg, someone going into Alpha kill-mode :P
I don't know :P bring on the next episode!
Yes, Eilidh, you need to stick with the series. I was close to giving it up after every one of the first three episodes, and I'm so glad I stuck with it up to episode 6, which was just classic Joss, really, and showed me why it was worth sticking with the show.
Min - I agree with everything you've just said, although I am also convinced that Adele is the one who is undermining the Dollhouse from the inside. I think her strategic game (that you've noticed her playing) is all geared towards bringing down the Dollhouse, or at least causing some kind of change in the leadership/how the Dollhouse is run. What I don't know yet is why.
I can't wait for tomorrow's episode.
15 years ago
Fri Apr 03 2009, 02:31pm
I very much agree with the whole slow start thing. Episodes 6 and 7 completely reignited my interest in this series.
Oh, I like the Ballard as Alpha theory. I immediately started playing the guessing game when the whole notion of an ex-rogue killer doll popped up. Though my 'theories' tended to be more like wild accusations. :P
At first I thought Dominic was really shifty. I still don't quite understand why, in the wacky religious cult episode, he hit Echo over the head when she was basically already dying. Anyway I don't think I'm remembering that scene properly but the whole doll vs human thing seems to lend itself to that scifi sort of plot device that tries to keep you in suspense with 'who is human/who is Cylon' or 'who is human/who is Replicant?' In fact I don't know whether I'm just making this up but there seemed to be a scene that sort of referenced Blade Runner, with that eye test thing and the close up of the pupil.
But yeah, with Dollhouse that whole notion sort of seems deeper, to me anyway, because it's not machines starting to become human. It's humans that have been made into machines, so to speak, starting to remember how to be human... or something along those lines. ~:| Yes, that made complete sense. Err off to my drawer of inappropriate starches.
Smuppet, I love your point about humans being made into machines In fact, I saw a blog post somewhere or other that made that very point, quite eloquently.
I really want Adelle to be the one undermining the Dollhouse, just because I like her character so much, but I'm starting to think that she probably won't be. For one thing, it's almost too obvious - and if there's one thing that Joss shows aren't, it's obvious. It would be amazing if it was, say, Mr Dominic and all his business with getting Echo out of the way was because he thought she might compromise his double-agent position.
I just watched episode 6 - damn you Uni work making me fall behind in my TV watching! My brother's transfering episodes 7 and 8 across for me now :D
Totally LOVED episode 6! I haven't read everything you've said up there, I stopped reading the spoilers when people started saying stuff about episode 7, but in relation to the comments after episode 6:
Melly's a doll!! I was so happy when Ballard finally realised he should be paying attention to her! (Although I am forever referring to him in my mind as Helo :P ) I wondered if he'd notice the whole crazy flowers talk when he plays his answering machine back, because Melly didn't wipe it before she re-Mellyed. He might put two and two together when he plays it! Or be like o.O
I don't think he'd be Alpha. I do find it slightly odd that Adelle doesn't want him dead though. Can't quite come up with a formed theory as to why though.
I was thinking, maybe it's Topher's assistant (the one he sent to find out about lunch) who planted the message for Ballard in Echo. I mean, you'd have to know what you're doing in order to tamper with the encoding, and I don't see why they'd have her coming in in a few scenes every few episodes if she wasn't going to be somewhat important. They've got a lot of characters already, it's not like Topher particularly needs an assistant, he does most of it himself. So the fact they've 'cluttered' the cast with her implies to me she'll be at least somewhat important at some point.
And I agree with the Poor Sierra sentiments. So glad that guy got beaten up by Melly! Although when Echo and Ballard were fighting, I kept thinking "No, don't throw her on the car, someone will come around the corner and think you're trying to rape her!"
Time for some more Dolllhouse watching :D
Yeah, episode 8 was fabulous. Did anyone else start crying when it became obvious that Melly/November's daughter was dead? I think Joss shows work best when they're focusing on the characters, and although it's hard to focus on characters in a show that's about people who have had their personalities removed, I think they're doing an admirable job now. We are finally being given a reason to care that these characters are suffering incredible psychological torture. In this episode we see four very strong, intelligent, tormented people fight and fight and fight to take back what has been stolen from them. It's heartbreaking.
One of my friends was saying that Dollhouse is essentially a show about building a human soul, and I thought it was a particularly apt assessment. It's a daring premise for a show, and I can't wait to see where it takes us next.
I really loved episode 8 too and it makes me think now that
perhaps the scarred doctor is perhaps the insider. How she was like, I can't be the one to help you - or something. She knew that it was all a set up - a game - anyway, and couldn't expose herself. She knew that they would collapse once they achieved their goals...
It was also interesting to see what those Dolls were like before they were 'contracted'. It's interesting to see that Caroline was contracted because she couldn't live with Leo dying. Melly seems to have turned to the Dollhouse because she was unable to cope with the death of her daughter? I can imagine something that traumatic can make you want to forget what's happening, so when offered, she was probably happy to find an escape from her own life. I wasn't too sure about Ciera though - so that guy she went to see, Nolan, forced her to become a Doll because she refused to sleep with him? Victor seems to have been part of the army by the way he was talking?
And I love that Caroline made contact with Paul and Dollhouse seems to be unaware of it!
It's a completely different and amazing series! I'm loving it!
15 years ago
Mon Apr 06 2009, 06:18pm
Wow, what a wonderful episode! It was so fast paced, and kept me constantly guessing what was really going on. I loved the conclusion that the doctor suggested they be allowed some sort of resolution which makes me wonder - a little off topic - they've obviously kept the real minds and memories of the now-dolls. Is part of their contract that once their term is up, they'll have their memories returned, but modified? If you suppress an emotion or problem for that length of time, being made suddenly aware of it all over again - won't they be in the same place that they were in, when they entered the Dollhouse, unless their memories are altered before they're restored?
Also, I'm wondering if the implants this episode, if we could call them that, were the entirety of their former memories, or just the portions they thought needed resolving? Because, if Echo had been fully restored to Caroline, wouldn't she have remembered Leo at some point? The others all seemed to remember people from their pasts, but all Caroline wanted to do was save people she didn't know. The fact that the first things they remembered were the problems they had to resolve feels as though they we implanted with an suggestion of themselves, instead of their entire selves.
And I LOVE that Caroline managed to contact Paul Ballard. What file did she find? Possibly Alpha's? ;) :P
Anyway, very interesting stuff! Am completely hooked now!